Episode 3

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Published on:

4th Nov 2024

Clicks and Giggles with Brian

This podcast episode dives deep into the world of digital marketing, emphasizing the importance of building trust and providing value to clients. Brian Von Lemden shares his journey from engineering to marketing, highlighting the challenges and rewards of navigating the complex landscape of digital and print advertising. The discussion touches on the significance of understanding client expectations and the necessity of honest communication in fostering successful business relationships. Listeners will gain insights into the nuances of effective marketing strategies, including the distinction between engagement and generating leads. The episode ultimately underscores the transformative impact that genuine service and personal integrity can have on both clients and the marketer's own fulfillment.

Transcript
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Right where you are.

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You're sitting in an electrical matrix of energy beyond belief or most human conception.

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You'd be surprised to know how much knowledge and communication can be carried on its way.

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All right, here we are once again.

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I think this is episode three.

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We got Brian Layman.

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Is it.

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How do I see it?

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Brian?

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It's Lemon.

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Von Lemden.

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Yeah.

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Von Lemden.

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Yes, that is cool.

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Line is included.

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Yes, that.

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What's the.

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What's the show with the kids singing and all that?

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Sound of Music.

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What were they called?

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The Vander Tramps.

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Not even close to your name.

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I don't know.

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That's it.

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Yeah.

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So my way off.

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We just got started.

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I mean, that's German, right?

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So that's like maybe.

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There you go.

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It's Austrian.

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Austrian, is it?

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They're Austria, so that's close.

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I don't know if I've actually seen the.

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The movie since I was like, six.

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Okay, well, anyway.

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Anyway, this is.

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What's it called again?

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Reagan.

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I always forget the name of my Making sense.

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Navigating digital and print marketing with Bill Zo.

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Perfect.

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And with Mr.

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Von Layman here.

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Is that a.

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Von Lemon or Lemon?

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Lemon.

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Lemon.

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V.

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Lemon.

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Yes.

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This should be.

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And you.

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You've got this covered, right?

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Digital and print.

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I mean, I'm doing print now, so digital.

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I have quite a bit of experience in print.

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Print.

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I'm learning, obviously, as you know, I'm a new franchisee for you guys.

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Yeah.

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Y.

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So I'm learning print as well.

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It's a little different nuance, I guess you could say, compared to what digital is.

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You're.

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You're kind of targeting things a little differently.

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But, yeah, I have a good, well rounded experience, I'd say.

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And you did do some print before we met.

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That's how we met you.

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Yeah.

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So.

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So we actually.

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That was our first mailer that we tried.

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We tried a physical mailer with our.

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Our digital clients to see how effective it would be.

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It was okay.

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It was not.

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So.

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So learning.

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That was a little different because what.

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The biggest difference that I noticed between print and digital is volume in digital.

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It's kind of assumed that you're getting volume in print.

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You think that 5,000 is a lot and it's not.

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Right.

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So.

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Yeah.

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So you met me through the postcard is basically you guys saw.

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You saw my postcard that we sent out, and then you reached out.

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We, you know, we've connected from there.

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What I've learned from the postcard is that it would have been probably more Effective.

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Had I done more, which is kind of like what you guys do.

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You guys.

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Yeah, you guys do a lot more.

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And I think just like digital, you could, I mean, it could be a targeted list of specific owners of a specific product.

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And then that cost per, you know, mailing is going to be much higher.

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And you could, you know, so the quantity too can be affected by that.

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But, you know, before we really get into that, someone talked about you have a real passion for like, silver pens or something.

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What's up with that?

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That's got seemed a little weird.

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I don't know, silver pens or.

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Oh, was it.

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It's just a pilot pen.

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I'm a big fan of pen.

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Like, I mean, I'm just finicky.

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I'm finicky when it comes to pens.

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Something about the way it feels or something.

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I don't know what you were saying.

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That's why I'm trying to clarify.

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Yeah.

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Before the podcast.

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So you guys have like these blue pens that are, like, fuzzy and just inefficient.

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Oh, my gosh.

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They have a nice grip.

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What are you saying?

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They, they just like, when you write with them, they're just like, bold and they're hard to write.

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And I just wasn't a big fan.

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I got, I got a couple of them and like this one, you know.

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This is a no holds barred.

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Yeah, no way.

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We got to be honest.

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Honesty is important.

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When you talk, I'm with you.

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And so, like, I'm not going to lie to you about a pen.

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If I don't lie you about a pen, then I won't lie to you about anything else.

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Right.

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Okay.

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Now when you say that, you know, you've seen the Abe Blinkin commercial, right?

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When his wife asked him if she looks fat in that dress.

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Is that the kind of honesty you're talking about?

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I haven't seen the commercial.

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Oh, okay.

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Well, you know what I'm talking about.

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Are you sure all the time is going to be honest?

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I mean, because, you know, that could be hurtful that you just made fun of my pen.

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Is it hurtful?

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No, I don't care.

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Well, then.

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But maybe somebody I don't know.

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Yeah.

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So, like, in my marriage, I.

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We're pretty honest with each other, and I think it's been very effective.

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Oh, everything.

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All the time.

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A lot of things.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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You know, so like, so like, you know, one of the things that's very.

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Actually, this might be a huge topic in this.

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In this conversation right now because you probably see it differently because you Know, we're a little bit different age gap wise.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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So I imagine you grew up with this whole, like, happy wife, happy life.

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Right?

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Yeah.

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And I believe that.

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I think, you know, but I also do that, believe that we all need to be happy.

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We can't be miserable men.

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Right.

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Just because we're married.

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And my wife and I have a belief that, you know, if one of us are cranky or grumpy, like, we got to call each other out from it, you know, because we can't.

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Maybe it's an uncomfortable situation, and it is, but you can't.

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Sometimes you don't realize you're grumpy or you're upset or you're in a bad mood, and.

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And if you let it fester, it just gets a lot worse.

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Yeah.

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You know?

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Yeah.

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100.

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So we have.

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We have a rule in our house that if somebody's grumping, like, you're allowed to call him out.

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Okay.

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Bryce is allowed to call me out.

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I might beat him a couple times.

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But.

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And I'm assuming.

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And this put her done with age or anything.

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It.

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You know, the tone, how you say it.

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Right.

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That has a lot to do, I would think.

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Yeah.

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Oh, no, absolutely.

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You got to be.

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So I think in a.

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In a marriage, you got to be open in any relationship, but you have to be open to constructive criticism.

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And you also have to understand that when somebody's coming to you with feedback, that they're probably not there to hurt you, you know?

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So, like, if I go to my wife and I go, hey, honey, you've been kind of snippy at the kids today.

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Like, just let you know, like, Bryce is feeling down because you've been snapping at him a little bit, like, it's not because I'm going at her like, you're a beep.

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Like, you're.

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You're.

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You're a jerk.

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Right?

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Yeah.

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It's more because I want to make sure that the relationship she has with Bryce is not gonna.

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All right, let me give you a situation.

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I hope I don't get in trouble with my wife on this one.

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She's not going to watch any of these.

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She's not going to care.

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As an example, like, she might mispronounce or spell something.

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Yeah.

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Now I'm thinking we're in the privacy of our home, and, you know, in public, you'd Wouldn't want to make that error.

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Right?

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So, yeah.

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Privacy, home.

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Hey, honey.

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It's actually pronounced XYZ or whatever.

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She's not really happy with that.

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A Lot of times when I do, I don't know what it is, but.

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So that would be an example.

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Do you think your wife would appreciate your correction over pronunciation, or do you think you just let it go?

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That's a good question.

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So I do call her out.

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I've called her out before on things.

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So anyways.

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So the little story.

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So I used to say anyways all the time.

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Oh.

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And she called me out one time because she was like, it's anyway.

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And.

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Oh, I didn't.

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I'm learning that right now.

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I didn't.

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Yeah, it's anyway.

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Anyway.

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Yeah.

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So Reagan can confirm that.

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Confirm or dynamic?

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We're gonna fact check it.

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What am I fact checking?

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Is it.

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Don't even listen anymore?

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Is it anyway or anyways.

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Yeah, it's probably kind of pointless.

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But now anytime she says anyways, I correct her.

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I go, hey, oh, it's anyway.

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And that.

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That goes over okay.

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She usually laughs.

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I eat laughing.

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But yeah, S is used informally.

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Informally.

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Yeah, but the.

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The definition is any way.

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Yeah.

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So like the correct.

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So I guess they're both okay.

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Well, if.

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When you talk about being informal, I mean, if you're just an informal American, I guess.

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Oh, you're trying not to be informal sometimes.

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Trying to be proper.

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What the heck is that proven proper.

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With my nice hat and.

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Yeah.

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Really?

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Yeah, you're very.

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Yeah.

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You're very formal all the time.

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All right, so we got.

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We got this.

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We got some small talk in.

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Yeah, and we'll go back to that, I'm sure.

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But.

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But so what?

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Here's something I like to know.

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Like what guy?

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Because you have a weird.

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You haven't, like, an engineering background.

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Right.

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So tell us a little bit about how you even got into this marketing dude.

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I don't know.

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God, maybe.

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God called me to go market, you.

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Know, be a good guy to listen to, I think.

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I think he called me to serve.

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But yeah, so I have.

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I went to school.

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I was very good at math.

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Yeah.

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Perfect score on my ab, BC calculus tests.

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When I was in high school, went to college, you know, there were high hopes for me.

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I graduated instead of in three years when they expected.

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I graduated in five years.

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We knew there was something coming after high hopes.

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Yeah, I know, right?

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It was more about like life hit me and it wasn't like I did bad or anything in school.

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It's just I took a year off and, you know, so forth.

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Anyway, is there anything you tell us about that part?

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What part?

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You know, life hitting you thing or.

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Unless it's Real heavy.

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I don't.

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You know, Funny.

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Like, it's just like my son was.

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Caught doing something or something.

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Oh, no, I didn't get caught.

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I was.

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I'm a good person.

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Yeah.

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Know, I'm basically an angel.

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Kidding.

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I don't know if you mean like fun or not good, you know.

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No, it was just not be.

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You could be good and be fun.

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Yeah.

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No, I think it was just like.

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There you go.

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Re.

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Leave all that in.

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No.

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So my son was.

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It's kind of a.

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So my son was born and I took a year off after he was born and I transferred schools a couple years, a couple times.

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So I went to Akan to start, and then I transferred to Lake Erie and then I transferred to Cleveland State where I finished.

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Okay.

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That's where I went.

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Really?

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Yeah.

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I loved.

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I wish I went out there first because it was a beautiful school.

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It was awesome.

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Yeah.

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So in the process, they don't tell you that, like, you still have to hit a certain number of credits at the school.

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So, like, I wasn't.

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So when I went to Akron, they're like, you're going to graduate in three years.

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So I was there for two years.

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I transferred closer to home to Lake Erie, and I was there for one year and it was too expensive, so I took a year off after Bryce was born, and then I transferred to Cleveland State.

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So when I met with my advisor, I thought I was expecting to be at school for one year.

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Excuse me.

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The hell was that?

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He'll edit it out.

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Go ahead.

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So I expected to be at school for one year at Cleveland State, and then I expected to graduate.

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Well, at the end of that year, I was meeting with my advisor.

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I'm like, everything's on pace.

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It was like.

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It was like going into second semester expecting I was going to graduate in a couple months.

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And they were like, no, you got a whole nother year.

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You have to get a certain amount of credits.

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So that's what you know.

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That's.

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I know about you, but that's.

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You never think.

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I was like thinking of that split second when that thing went wrong for you.

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Right.

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You're sitting there, you're thinking one way.

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Yeah.

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So the moment you found, just to even see your face, think what you're right.

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Like I was thinking at the quarterback.

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And he knows as soon as it lets go, it's like, oh, that's not going where I want it to go.

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That's intercepted.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Do you ever.

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Do you see Finding Nemo?

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Yeah.

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One of my favorite lines is Good.

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Feelings gone.

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Remember that moment, okay.

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When the big fish lights up.

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He said he.

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The little green ball.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Oh, yeah.

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I don't know why I'm so happy.

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I'm so happy.

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And all of a sudden that fish lights up to eat him.

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He's like, good feeling's gone.

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Yeah.

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That's the moment, right?

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You're like, yeah, feelings gone.

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It was pretty.

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I was full of a lot of like, negative emotions at that time.

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I was.

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I was.

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I was pissed.

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To be honest.

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I was not happy.

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So that's why it took me five years.

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So I ended up going.

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Finished up with my bachelor's in of science in applied and theoretical mathematics.

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Wow.

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What kind of job would you normally people do that.

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Get that.

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Dude, I don't even know what they do with that degree, but.

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So how was Arby's?

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Yeah, probably Arby's.

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You know, number.

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Number cruncher.

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22.

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I shouldn't even joke about it.

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Kids are making 20 bucks an hour there.

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And that was more than.

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I started off college.

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So I actually.

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I actually went and I.

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What became what was like approach.

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A program manager at a aerospace company in.

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Wow.

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In Cleveland.

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Sounds pretty cool.

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Yeah, it sounds cool.

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It was just be repaired playing parts.

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And I was in charge of making sure the parts got repaired on time, which they never were repaired on time.

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Okay.

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These are for airplanes.

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Yeah.

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So I.

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I mean, now being working there, did you feel safer flying working in there or less safe?

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I shouldn't say.

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Oh my gosh.

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That's what I'm wondering.

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You know, like, I.

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I don't.

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To be honest with you.

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I don't know if I can say to be like.

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I don't know what the.

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Oh.

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Oh.

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Like there could be a law or something.

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Like you can get in trouble.

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Yeah, I don't.

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Yeah.

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I don't know.

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All right, we'll just.

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I don't know the.

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The ramifications.

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We don't want anything to happen bad.

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Especially since you're one of our franchises.

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Yeah, that would be.

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I get arrested tomorrow.

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These guys are really prepared.

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Here there nothing here.

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But I'm gonna pretend you make bill money.

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So he cares.

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Yeah, I'm making a much right now.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So anyway.

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Yeah.

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You're aerospace science guy or whatever.

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Yeah.

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So I was like a project manager, a program manager, which is like a mix between like engineer and like a salesperson.

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And then before I left, I was on my way to becoming a quality engineer.

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So I was.

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I was accepted for the job.

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I was getting a promote.

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A promotion Whatever you call it.

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So I was gonna become a quality engineer.

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And a couple weeks before I left the company, well, like, I had gotten the promotion.

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I was told that they wanted me to do, like, a transition, which was fine.

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And they were like, it's gonna take you like, two months.

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And then we got a new manager.

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And he was like, yeah, we wanna extend your transition to like six months.

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And I was like, no.

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So I wasn't directly an engineer, but we had to know everything that the engineers knew.

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So.

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So the easiest way for me to explain what it is to you is that I was basically an engineer.

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Oh.

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I didn't have the rights to sign off on stuff, but we had to know everything the engineer knew.

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We just need to get the engineer to sign off officially.

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Okay.

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I would have been if I would have stayed for six more months.

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But, you know, like I said, I thought it wasn't.

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Wasn't fair that they wanted me to stay because I was like, what they considered their lead account manager.

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And, like, I was like, you know, I'll train whoever.

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And, you know, but they were like, oh, we gotta.

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We got.

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You got a new supervisor.

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You gotta, like, help get him on, you know what, you know, you know how it goes.

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Yeah.

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And it.

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Yeah, I've been there for like, three years.

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So I left.

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You were done.

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You're like, three years, I'm out of here.

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Yeah.

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So I left and I started a YouTube channel and I started making content.

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And then somehow in this whole spiel of life, like, for a living, you're doing a YouTube.

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I didn't know that.

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I remember this part of your story.

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Yeah, yeah.

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This is.

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This is before.

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Wow.

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This is before.

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We've never gotten this, this early before.

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Oh, okay.

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Yeah.

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So I started making YouTube videos.

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I actually did better than I thought I would do, money wise.

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I didn't do, like, as much as I was making as an.

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How does that even work?

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What do you mean?

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Like, you just made videos and then the ads or the view.

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Yeah.

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So in other words, you get a lot of views.

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That's the whole point.

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Yeah.

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This is why we have all the crap on there.

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Right.

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They're just whatever they got to say to get views.

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Yeah.

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Because YouTube pays you based on your.

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I mean, it's not directly from views.

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But sort of, you know, I mean, the negative news and all that kind of stuff.

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Yeah, I mean, that's why you do it, because it's.

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You know, YouTube cares about money when it comes down to it, so.

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And it's actually a great Platform to be on and be able to create content.

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But I understand why people burn out on it because, like, the demand of always doing better than you did before is very stressful.

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You know, you might have a video that went like.

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I had.

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I had a couple videos that went, like, viral on my channel, and one went to, like, a million.

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It was like, I don't know, 500,000, 600,000 views, which is huge.

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Made me a ton of it made me a good amount of money for my niche, which was about computers and.

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Oh, so these were all specifically about a certain.

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About computers.

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Yeah.

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So I did it about, like, how.

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To repair them or something or.

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Yeah.

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How to build computers.

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Oh.

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Tested parts out, that kind of stuff.

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Wow.

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But it burnt me out because, like, certain topics were topics that I didn't want to talk.

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I didn't want to create content on them.

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Okay, I'm sorry.

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I got to go back.

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So what in the world will get 500,000 to a million views about a computer?

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Yeah.

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So it was a video on how to lower the temperatures.

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You're not going to understand this, but I'll tell you anyways.

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Of the Ryzen:

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A little bit insulting, but.

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Okay.

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Well, do you know computers?

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No.

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Well, there you go.

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I feel like I'm your wife.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Well, you know, in our house, it's all about truth and God.

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Right.

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Amen.

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So it was about how to lower the temperatures of a cpu.

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Okay.

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I do kind of get.

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I mean, I see the little fans they sell and all that, so I.

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You know, I'm an older guy.

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I kind of see.

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You got to keep them cool.

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Yeah.

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So, like, there was a.

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The Ryzen:

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So you had to spend a lot of money on nice coolers to keep it cool.

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And even, like, even some of the really expensive AIOs, the all in one water loops, they didn't even do that great of a job.

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So I came out with a video that showed people how to lower their temperatures so their fans weren't running super loud and being annoying.

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Because that stuff bothers me.

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And.

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And got.

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I don't even know how many you got.

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You could check my YouTube channel.

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I don't even know.

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What's your YouTube channel?

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Lemon Media.

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Okay.

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I could.

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I could probably blow it up.

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All right.

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I actually.

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I actually just.

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Oh, we don't care that much.

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The.

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I mean, the computer space is huge.

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I mean, Linus Tech tips.

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Yeah.

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I mean, it's a whole media empire.

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I mean, he makes.

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He's Got to make.

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I'm surrounded by a pack of nerds.

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He's got to make millions.

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Like, yeah, I mean, he.

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He has 100 employees.

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So, like, yeah, they're huge.

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I'm baffled by the whole thing.

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Who watches any of this kind of stuff?

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You.

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I mean, dude, it's a huge.

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It's a huge industry.

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It's a multi trillion dollar industry.

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I think it is now.

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To watch videos about computer repair.

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Yes, I'm.

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I'm completely.

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Well, not just about computers, but just.

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Go home, go to sleep.

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Just about YouTube in general, you know, like this, like this podcast is an effective way to share.

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Dang, it's coffee.

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Effective way to share, like knowledge, you know, because we're not going to be here forever, but like, there's still lessons that we're learning right now that could be affected and applicable in 20.

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Can you imagine the amount of time it would take for you to sit around watching a bunch of videos like, oh, look at these guys from 20 years ago.

:

There's some little bit of knowledge content in there I didn't know about.

:

Do you watch old movies?

:

Rarely.

:

Really?

:

Yeah, we.

:

Well, I see I have a problem of affluent.

:

I'm a very successful businessman.

:

Oh, sorry.

:

I have so much money, I subscribe to all the streaming channels.

:

Right.

:

And you name it, I got it.

:

Look at that.

:

So we just sit around, watch Netflix, Amazon prime, and you know, I do not get pissed off because all the commercials.

:

I'm so pissed.

:

I'm like, what?

:

Everything.

:

I.

:

It used to be.

:

I thought I paid for it and you could just walk.

:

Anyway, I'm digressing.

:

Go ahead.

:

Sorry.

:

We're listening to your history.

:

I don't even know if we were talking about my history.

:

Oh, well, it was your YouTube, your history, you know, your career.

:

So you were in YouTube channels and you got a bunch of people watching.

:

So.

:

Yeah, so I did the YouTube stuff and I learned how to use a camera and how to make videos and that kind of stuff.

:

And eventually that led me into marketing.

:

Okay, so that's what tends to Lemon.

:

Photography and stuff you had to add on your post.

:

Okay.

:

This is how it got going.

:

Yeah.

:

So Lemon me.

:

How did you first start the.

:

Did someone get you into doing the YouTube thing or did you just like completely.

:

I mean, you go from aerospace quality guy to doing YouTube thing.

:

I don't know.

:

Yeah, I think it was.

:

I don't know.

:

I guess I'm some 32 now.

:

Back then I was 17, 20, 18.

:

What's going on, guys?

:

Oh, there's my.

:

You hear me?

:

Turn off that.

:

What are you doing, bro?

:

Turn that off.

:

Yeah, Geez.

:

Right here, we're trying to do a podcast.

:

Your most viewed video.

:

Is it.

:

Is it still my most viewed?

:

Yeah.

:

323, 000 views.

:

How many?

:

300.

:

Oh, look at.

:

Oh, I thought.

:

How many?

:

I thought it was like five.

:

I thought it was like 500.

:

I do.

:

I thought it was like, YouTube does.

:

Go in and, like, it may have, I don't know, decrease views.

:

I had a million views.

:

I listen, I mean, you also might have some that you.

:

You.

:

You took down.

:

Who knows?

:

Well, I actually had all of them privated for a very long time because I was going to go away from.

:

Oh, that's why it's so low at 300.

:

Yeah, it might have only counted after they came out.

:

Yeah.

:

So it might not have.

:

Yeah, I'm not.

:

I'm not quite sure.

:

Embarrassing.

:

But.

:

Okay, let's keep moving on anyway.

:

Very embarrassing.

:

Yeah.

:

So to answer your question, so like, when I was growing up, I was always.

:

I've been building computers since I was 10.

:

So I helped a couple of my friends build computers when we were in, like, high school and, you know, beyond.

:

And so they're like, hey, you should make videos about this.

:

And I was like, that's stupid.

:

That's so dumb.

:

And now everybody's making videos about everything.

:

And I'm like, man, I'm stupid.

:

You could have kept going.

:

Yeah.

:

So on.

:

Well, apparently 300,000.

:

What do you think you make on.

:

What does someone make on that?

:

You get 300,000?

:

I think I made a few thousand dollars.

:

Oh, okay.

:

So it wasn't a whole lot, but when you have a bunch of videos compiling and you keep bringing, is it kind of like.

:

Excuse me, Is it kind of like royalties?

:

Like, are you still getting a little bit from it?

:

Yeah, I'll get payouts.

:

I don't even know what I haven't looked at in a long time.

:

At one point, I know that, like, per month I was making, you know, a Couple thousand from YouTube.

:

Oh, yeah.

:

And my channel is small, too, so it's only like 6,000 right now.

:

6,000 subscribers.

:

So it's a pretty small channel.

:

That's small.

:

Oh, yeah.

:

Well, I mean.

:

Oh, yeah, it's very.

:

I mean, today it's a lot, but.

:

Yeah, it's hard to get there.

:

But, like, it's small compared to where I should have been or where I could have been if I would have kept posting.

:

But the idea was like, I just got, like, burnt out from posting because I was posting about CPU coolers and posting about all these different things that I just didn't have like a love and passion for it.

:

And the reason why I started the channel was because.

:

Kind of good to hear.

:

Yeah.

:

It'd be weirder if you did.

:

If I kept posting and didn't love it or anything.

:

Well, just love and passion for CPUs.

:

It sounds weird, I mean I don't offend anybody, but you gotta plug the.

:

CPU in the socket somehow.

:

You know, you need love and passion for that.

:

Right?

:

Oh boy.

:

Okay.

:

So like it wasn't like.

:

So the reason why I started channel was because when I was in high school and stuff I'd help people build computers and I felt like it was like what I knew but after doing it for a couple, a couple of years, I just felt like it wasn't like it wasn't fulfilling it, you know, wasn't doing what I was trying to do.

:

So I try to make a video and I was like, oh, this isn't what I want.

:

And it just didn't perform well.

:

So you kind of just get in that, like that cycle of just despair kind of and you just.

:

So eventually I quit posting.

:

You know, the first time I met you, we.

:

Did we meet at Bob Evans?

:

I can't remember probably.

:

No.

:

Was it the broken anger or was it Bob Evans?

:

No, no, this was the very first time.

:

Because what I was going to bring up is you.

:

We met near a micro center because you said you wanted to nerd out.

:

I remember you were like, I didn't even know you.

:

You know, I called up we're gonna meet and the only thing you threw out there was like, hey, it's near the micro center and I'm gonna nerd out or something like that.

:

I was like, oh, okay.

:

I don't know what that's about Now I know.

:

I feel like I'm a little understand better now.

:

When you went back there that day, were you like that's just not doing it for me or were you like, oh my gosh, I kind of missed this.

:

I still, I love the place.

:

Okay.

:

I still just being in the store itself is just exciting.

:

Yeah.

:

So like the downside of computer building when you leave your job and you don't have a good income is that computer parts cost money.

:

So like a lot.

:

Yes.

:

So it's not as expensive as like a car hobby.

:

You know, if you have a car, it's a little bit more expensive.

:

But like I didn't have all this, you Know, money I could spend on computer parts to be talking about the latest and greatest.

:

So it got very.

:

Yeah.

:

You tired?

:

It got very boring for me to be posting old videos that nobody cared to watch.

:

So.

:

Yeah.

:

Okay.

:

So it was.

:

So anyway, that's how I got to marketing.

:

Somehow you were ever in a club or something like, whether people like you and Reagan, apparently.

:

Reagan, are.

:

You do this stuff too?

:

Because you're making all these.

:

Yeah, I'm doing it for us.

:

Mark's computers have an issue, and I'm buying a new SSD because they have hard drives, so I'm going to.

:

Hard drives?

:

Yeah, it bought them.

:

Bought them in:

:

That's wild.

:

Is the hard drive some old thing?

:

I didn't know that was already gone.

:

Yes.

:

What do they use now?

:

Well, you could still use mechanical hard drives, but usually use solid state drives or M2s, which is all.

:

Which is all, like the storage that's on, like, your phone or your.

:

I mean, any modern computer usually has you.

:

I'm way behind.

:

Yeah.

:

I thought I just did buy a new.

:

I'm hopefully get it tomorrow.

:

A new iPad, like 13 inch or whatever.

:

And it says all this.

:

New pros.

:

New pro.

:

Yeah, they're very nice with the M4.

:

Yeah.

:

Is that kind of like ass computer?

:

Oh, I can't wait.

:

It's.

:

Well, it's not a computer.

:

It's an iPad, but it's like a play solitaire.

:

Really quick on it.

:

I don't know about that.

:

It might be a little bit too fast for solitaire.

:

Is a little too hard for that.

:

That is actually a very powerful system.

:

Okay, I'm getting excited.

:

All right.

:

So anyway.

:

And we got to get you out.

:

What time is it, Reagan?

:

Because I don't want 2:47.

:

Okay.

:

We got.

:

You sure.

:

Yeah.

:

I'm getting a little.

:

Okay.

:

I guess Brian's really into this.

:

He's like, no one ever wants to hear about my computer background.

:

My wife hates it.

:

Yeah.

:

Okay, so now we're.

:

You did the YouTube thing, right.

:

We're into that.

:

And you're deciding to come.

:

And that kind of.

:

Now you.

:

During that the marketing part started.

:

So tell us a little bit that transition.

:

So basically, I was offered a job to go do become a video producer for Universal Windows Direct.

:

Wow.

:

Okay.

:

I think I told you this.

:

Yeah.

:

Just from your.

:

So they saw your YouTube channel.

:

Like, man, this dude rocks with the computer videos.

:

We need to get him this.

:

This.

:

Yeah, this guy should do Windows videos.

:

Basically as weird as it may sound.

:

Yeah, that's kind of how it went.

:

They actually brought me on as, like, to be, like, a social media consultant first.

:

They wanted to get a bigger president on YouTube first, so they wanted to be posting more content on YouTube.

:

So did they seek you out or did you apply for a job or.

:

Well, I saw one up there, so I applied for a job.

:

Oh, okay.

:

All right.

:

It's kind of like the 500 and 300 thing, but.

:

Okay, go ahead.

:

503.

:

What do you mean?

:

Oh, you said 500 views.

:

You only had 300.

:

Oh, yeah.

:

Now you're acting like they recruited you, but really you went to them.

:

You know, now think about it.

:

I'm.

:

I'm trying to wonder how that even worked.

:

I don't even know.

:

I'm pretty sure, yeah, 1 million.

:

I'm pretty sure.

:

I did apply.

:

If I.

:

If I'm thinking about it.

:

Right.

:

I thought it was an opportunity that I saw that I was like, oh, this might be interesting.

:

So I applied.

:

Never expected them to call me.

:

I met with them and they're like, okay.

:

And then they didn't call me back.

:

Oh, yeah, no.

:

So.

:

Oh, man.

:

They let you hanging for a little.

:

Yeah.

:

Did you feel good about it and you're like, they're gonna call me.

:

And then I didn't care either way.

:

Oh, wow.

:

It wasn't.

:

It wasn't important if you have something.

:

Else and in mind, another job or something.

:

I was doing okay on YouTube and it was, you know, making money here and there.

:

You know, you're like.

:

What's your wife's name again?

:

Nikki.

:

Nikki.

:

Any day.

:

500, 000 views.

:

Man.

:

You build a bill.

:

At least a new car.

:

Yeah, I mean.

:

Okay, sorry.

:

Go.

:

I did dig Degress.

:

Never mind.

:

Yeah, I mean, okay, so you get.

:

You get in a universal window.

:

So that's plug for those guys.

:

Yep.

:

Good company.

:

You've said.

:

You've actually said positive things about them, so.

:

Sure.

:

Okay.

:

Yeah, No, I.

:

I think, yeah.

:

I mean, they're a good company.

:

They're, you know, they're a fine company.

:

You know, we don't all agree with everything that every company does, so we, you know, there's always differences.

:

Right.

:

What if one day you want to sell them an ad?

:

Will you please keep it positive here?

:

I know I was thinking that in my head as I say this, but, you know, and I do want to sell them an ad, and maybe someday I will.

:

You know, one thing I not.

:

I'm going to shift off gear a little bit.

:

I Was at a lake, and this guy, this giant pickup, big pickup truck, said, remax realty.

:

Real big.

:

And I'm in this boat.

:

Never in a boat.

:

There's like once, twice in my life.

:

I'm out there and I'm looking.

:

We're coming into the dock.

:

If everyone's ever been around there, you know, people kind of.

:

It could get awkward, like, who's next in who boat and back your trailer up and all that.

:

And I'm sitting there and I'm like, man, you know, if you had your name real big on there, you'd have to be pretty cool about stuff, right?

:

You're driving down the street.

:

Yeah.

:

You got a big remax.

:

You don't want to be a dick.

:

You don't want to be, like, acting stupid and stuff.

:

Oh, no, that didn't stop this guy, which, by the way, he worked for me after.

:

For a while, too.

:

And it's the same guy that I'm talking about.

:

But anyway, that was a bigger mistake.

:

Oh, yeah.

:

Him and his later yelling and screaming at each other on the dock.

:

Oh, my God.

:

And I'm like, dude, you're in a truck that has a.

:

Actually, it was his parents owned in it, so I probably didn't care.

:

But anyway, so I'm just thinking, no one's going to watch this anyway, so let's go.

:

Some people might, you know, they're.

:

They're a fine company.

:

They're.

:

The good people are good.

:

Oh, boy.

:

You know, we got to edit this thing right here.

:

Cut it out.

:

Yeah, that's what you're leading me to, right?

:

That's what you're trying to learn.

:

I don't know.

:

I don't care.

:

I'm old.

:

I'm getting out pretty soon.

:

Are you?

:

Well, I don't know.

:

I'm just a lot sooner than you, probably.

:

Yeah.

:

I mean, you probably only have, like, what, two, three days left.

:

Yeah, that's good.

:

Bride.

:

All right.

:

Tommy says that he wants to die at se.

:

At 70.

:

Well, no, my dad has died at 71.

:

His dad died at 71.

:

His brother died at 71, so.

:

Good.

:

I don't know if they take as many meds as me, you know, And I stayed.

:

Well, I don't really stay in shape.

:

But anyway, I'm on.

:

If anyone's wondering why I look so fit, it's from the oic.

:

Oh, really?

:

Oh, yeah.

:

I was like, South Park.

:

How long you been taking that?

:

Well, I was on trulicity for a while.

:

It's from diabetes.

:

I can't stop Eating Philly cheesesteaks and French fries.

:

So no control.

:

So you take a shot instead.

:

Yeah, just do one week, once a week, injection.

:

Okay.

:

People are like, what do you.

:

It goes Olympic just like all the other Hollywood people.

:

So I actually, like, last time I saw you, I was like, oh, wow.

:

You know, Bill looks like he lost a little bit of weight.

:

Really?

:

Yeah.

:

Just in that short amount of time.

:

Oh, not from now, but, like, maybe.

:

I should go get checked for cancer.

:

I hope that when you get this age, people lose weight.

:

You're like, you.

:

You all right?

:

Yeah.

:

No.

:

Well, no.

:

Like, so we hadn't seen each other for probably at least a month or so, and then I saw you.

:

We met.

:

Well, the summer, I am a little more active.

:

I hang out.

:

I see.

:

Yeah.

:

As soon as the winter hits and it gets dark at 5.

:

Oh, man.

:

Couple bags of chips, Netflix.

:

Yeah, but, you know, summer, I ride around the mower a little bit, hang outside.

:

You actually mow your own lawn?

:

Yeah, I.

:

Yeah, I do.

:

You have a nice, successful business and you're not paying somebody to.

:

It's.

:

You're not bargaining.

:

Bartering.

:

Bartering.

:

It's.

:

No, I bartered all the landscaping and.

:

But no, this gives you some peace and quiet.

:

You just put my little headphones on, ride around for an hour or two.

:

Kind of nice circles.

:

Yeah, basically.

:

Well, we have a lot of acres because we're wealthy, so we have a lot of acreage.

:

What do you got, 200 acres?

:

No, I don't have any acres.

:

76.

:

We have 76.

:

Do you really?

:

That's cool.

:

Yeah.

:

I mean, you're in Lucas, so, like.

:

You know, it's a lot cheaper down.

:

Yeah.

:

Men are.

:

What's an acre go for in menor?

:

Plenty.

:

Like 20, 30, 40.

:

I actually saw a.

:

There's an estate system from one of our clients, our digital clients.

:

I don't know if you want to get into that, but they're selling.

:

There's.

:

You want to talk about digital marketing or something?

:

They.

:

They're selling an.

:

It's like a 0.6 acre.

:

I think it's for like 180.

:

What?

:

In this development?

:

I think it was about 180.

:

I could be a little bit off, but they were like.

:

I've seen places.

:

They were like, jaw dropping.

:

It's insane.

:

That's.

:

Yeah.

:

When I came down here, probably a couple grand an acre.

:

Now I think it's up to 10 or something.

:

So it's.

:

Yeah, it's all that's happened the last.

:

Few years compared to like most places.

:

Yeah.

:

All right, let's.

:

All right.

:

Reagan, will you be quiet?

:

We're trying to get this podcast going.

:

Brian.

:

So how'd you go from.

:

What is it called?

:

Eagle.

:

Whoa.

:

Cut out, muted there.

:

Universal windows into.

:

Did you go from there to your own business?

:

Yeah.

:

Okay.

:

How long were you there?

:

Only about a year and a half.

:

Oh, not for.

:

Okay, maybe I'm the problem.

:

Yeah.

:

You know, let's not see how you left.

:

Let's just talk about your next.

:

So, so you got in now, photography or digital?

:

What'd you go?

:

So we went.

:

I went photography first.

:

Just straight photography.

:

Yeah, I was trying to do photography, and it just wasn't what I wanted.

:

I, I.

:

So the.

:

The common trend throughout my life has been, up until, like, the last couple of years, has been, like, I've been searching for what I want to do and what my purpose is.

:

Wow.

:

And, like, deep.

:

Yeah, it is very deep.

:

But, like, this is actually true.

:

This is very true.

:

And, like, I have struggled finding what.

:

I mean, not to get religious, but what God has been calling me to do.

:

No, we have no problem talking about God here.

:

You can do.

:

And, and, like, so I would run it, you know, as an engineer.

:

I, like, once I went to school because I was good at math.

:

Like, that's what I was told I was supposed to do.

:

So I did it.

:

And when I became an, like, basically became an engineer, you know, I was an engineer because I was supposed to utilize my math, my.

:

My problem solving skills, the skills that God provided me.

:

And I just didn't feel like I was at home.

:

Right.

:

And then I went.

:

Started my YouTube channel because I was like, like, you know, what's going on?

:

And I felt like I was serving.

:

I felt like I was actually teaching people and helping people, and I loved it.

:

Yeah.

:

But the topic that I was doing, I think it wasn't aligned with what I was trying to do.

:

So then I went and did, like, the video production.

:

I was like, man, maybe I could help kind of shape and help grow a business through my.

:

My ideas and my beliefs and just kind of like, you know, my passion, I guess.

:

And that worked.

:

And I was like, whoa, this actually works.

:

I really like to do this.

:

And then there were some conflicts and, like, direction.

:

I felt like I was in a box.

:

So we, you know, kind of moved, moved, moved.

:

So that's why I kind of started my own stuff.

:

Okay.

:

So photography was kind of trying to search for that.

:

Like, same thing.

:

I was searching for a meaning.

:

You know, I wanted to be Able to provide meaning to a family, you know.

:

Yeah.

:

And then after doing it for a little bit, I decided it just wasn't.

:

Wasn't it?

:

So I really just kind of focused.

:

So while I was doing photography, I was kind of doing a little bit of digital marketing, too, and doing a little bit of everything, which wasn't very efficient.

:

And then eventually got into digital marketing, and that's what I've been doing.

:

So.

:

And I feel like, you know, with the clients that we're working with and that my skill set, like, I'm actually being.

:

I'm following what God's asking me to do, which is to help people understand, like, the real understandings behind business and using my skill set, like the ability to work with numbers and kind of understand numbers to help businesses understand what they need to do.

:

Not necessarily better, but, like, what they need to understand so they can kind of get through the barriers that they're falling through.

:

Because a lot of times, a lot of clients that we speak to, they don't understand or they don't know why they're stuck.

:

Right.

:

And, like, that's where I feel like I'm.

:

That's where God has put me.

:

He's put me in a spot.

:

Are there a lot of older people like me that are stuck, or does it matter?

:

I think it's everybody.

:

Okay.

:

Surprisingly, just trying to navigate the whole mainly digital marketing landscape.

:

Would you say navigating that is where they're stuck or just anything?

:

I think they're stuck in business.

:

No, I think they're stuck at understanding what's good and what's bad.

:

And I think it's a lot of.

:

It's because there's not, like.

:

Well, one.

:

There's not time.

:

So for you to understand everything about print marketing.

:

An expert at print marketing.

:

Right.

:

I only reason I say that now because I meet people younger that know less, and I'm surprised, but yeah.

:

Yeah.

:

So you've been doing it for how many years?

:

Oh, my gosh.

:

Yeah.

:

Probably close to 40.

:

So close to 35 years of print.

:

You know, if you spent another 35 years learning digital, how old would you be?

:

You see, I'm 95.

:

95.

:

So, like, there's diminishing returns, but you would.

:

You'd be done, dude.

:

So my point I'm trying to make is that there's just so much.

:

There's just so, so much that.

:

That needs that you can't learn it all in business, you know, so.

:

So people can't learn, like, the most important things to grow their Business like they don't understand why print works or why it doesn't work.

:

They don't understand why digital works or why it doesn't work.

:

Right.

:

And I kind of feel like God's putting me in that place to be like oh Brian, you can understand the numbers behind this.

:

So now let's find a way.

:

Which I struggle with this by finding a way to communicate your understanding with numbers in a way that other people can understand that too.

:

Yeah, well.

:

And that's what.

:

Yeah, well hence you're even here today, right?

:

Yeah, I mean here we are because you came to our office to share.

:

You know, we met the other day and you're going through all these form the lg, whatever that thing is, formula and all that.

:

And that was very cool.

:

I've been doing it 40 years and I'm like okay, this is cool.

:

And we've used something similar but not as kind of professional and fine tuned as you're doing it.

:

Do you under two because as you're saying that I'm even reflecting my like I never want to do sales.

:

I hated salespeople and I don't want to be in sales.

:

And I was in non profit want to get married.

:

And this guy's like, you just gotta try sales.

:

You're just built for it.

:

And I'm like oh man.

:

Yeah.

:

Six weeks later is out telling everybody there.

:

But the very first thing that happened to me and I wonder if when you said something triggered this thought was the BS going on?

:

Right.

:

The first guy trains me dropping his price, drinking beer at three in the afternoon.

:

The next day I got guys lying to people straight out even told someone they're supposed to be getting a check.

:

And he just mean any bragged about how he got a check from this employee that he wasn't even supposed to get.

:

Yeah.

:

And I immediately just thought you talk about the God aspect.

:

It was like, all right, you know what if I can do.

:

If this is what's out here.

:

This is pretty sad.

:

I mean how does anybody navigate this?

:

And I thought if I could do this thing honestly and gen like I'm here to really help your business.

:

And it was a coupon magazine so it wasn't any different than now.

:

And.

:

And I think that's what it flourished, you know.

:

And then, and that's, you know when you say God because I thought I don't want to be in this.

:

And next thing I know I'm like no, I'm going to be in this.

:

And I actually like this.

:

And I felt like it had a meaning or purpose because there was.

:

I guess what my question is, do you find too, there's just a lot of garbage out there and a lot of deception.

:

And so when.

:

And people probably are almost even, you know, suspects.

:

Not the right word.

:

Looking for, like, you know, where they're just not trusting, you know.

:

Yeah, you gotta build suspicious or.

:

Yes, yeah, yeah.

:

No, I mean, I think our biggest.

:

Our biggest barrier in digital, even for print, is that, like, they're afraid that it's not gonna work, that we're just gonna steal their money.

:

And we hear it all the time.

:

Like, my previous marketing company stole X amount of money from me.

:

They did nothing for me.

:

And it's a hard barrier to jump through because it's like, it's like for me being religious, it's very tough because it's like, where's the barrier between asking for money that you need to run your business and to doing God's work type deal, Right?

:

Oh, yeah.

:

Like, I want to serve people and help people grow their businesses, but at the same time, and we kind of talked about a little bit today earlier, you have to get paid enough so that you can just.

:

You can survive and pay for your family and grow your business.

:

Hence, I'll do a little plug for Go Giver.

:

Yeah, Go Giver is one of the best books that I've ever read.

:

It's most.

:

One of the most impactful books I've ever read.

:

And I think if.

:

Because you just read it, I haven't read it in a long time.

:

Yeah.

:

But if I understand to your point, the idea is this circle, you know, that people are get right.

:

Like, you know, I always like to say, if you want to make a lot of money, it can't be about the money.

:

It's got to be about the relationship.

:

And that's one of the hardest things to get across.

:

And because it feels like you're taking a little leap out there, Right.

:

Like your story about the lawn guy and telling him you should wait till the spring and all that.

:

Right.

:

That to me is the Go Giver book.

:

Right, That's.

:

But at the end of the book, I think what they say is the people that tend to have the nature to give and pour themselves into the customer are the same people that have the hardest receiving because of that.

:

I think what you just said, the challenge, like, hey, you know, I want to see God.

:

I see the God in the other person.

:

I want to serve God.

:

I want to do this.

:

And so there's an uncomfortableness to that.

:

But I thought the book part of what I liked about said, yeah, but that person giving you.

:

Right.

:

The person that's giving you that money, you would actually plug them up.

:

In other words, you would actually stop that flow of that gift and reception.

:

And so anyway, that's one of the aspects I liked about the book was it justified me taking as much money as I could from people I like, you know?

:

No, I'm kidding.

:

But anyway, it did kind of say that because, you know, we have this here, right?

:

Raising prices, even in the print stuff.

:

And I think we all have someone we really like to buy from.

:

You know, there's like maybe a guy at the lawnmower place or the car.

:

And I'd rather pay more and know that that person's going to be there because I can trust that person.

:

They've got me first in their mind.

:

And so I think that's one of the.

:

I'm wondering.

:

I guess I'm pontificating here, preaching a little bit.

:

But when you say that, I hope.

:

I guess that's the message, is that, you know, knowing someone like you, the character that you have and sincerity that you have, you should not be afraid to charge the price because I think people will appreciate that you're around to continue to have that relationship and pay for that, you know, not that they have to pay for your sincerity and trust, but ultimately, if you're not making enough money and you're not around and they got to go to one of these fly by night companies or, you know, a big corporation that doesn't care.

:

All right, I'll stop there.

:

You can go ahead.

:

No, no.

:

Yeah, I think I completely agree with you on that.

:

I think so.

:

I think when it comes down to money and what you charge, I think it's like the value as long as you're providing.

:

Like, go.

:

Giver talks about this a lot too.

:

It talks about, like, giving more in value than you're receiving in payment.

:

I forgot that part.

:

Yeah.

:

So there's five, like, rules.

:

It's like that.

:

And then it's like the amount of money that you can make is completely.

:

It's dictated based on how many people you serve and how well you serve them.

:

And then they say, the third one is, I should know these.

:

I gotta read this again.

:

Yeah, I gotta read them.

:

So.

:

Yeah.

:

What's the third one?

:

The fourth one is the best gift is you.

:

I don't know what the third one.

:

I can't remember the third one is.

:

But the fourth one is the best gift is you look it up, Reagan.

:

And then the fifth one is be open to receiving.

:

So to answer your question, receiving has always been a very tough thing for me.

:

Always.

:

Yeah.

:

Like, you know, when people offer me things, I'm always like, no, no, no, no.

:

Yeah, I just saw it.

:

Yeah.

:

And I give you a little gas.

:

Money, and you're all freaked out.

:

Yeah.

:

So, like.

:

And I stopped, and actually, that book went through my mind when we were up there, by the way.

:

Yeah.

:

And.

:

And I stopped, and my wife actually called me out after I read the book, and I told her.

:

I said I was telling her about the whole.

:

Whole book.

:

And I'm like, this is wild.

:

This is great.

:

And she's like, you have a problem with number five.

:

And I was like, I do have a problem with number five, and I don't know why.

:

I just feel like sometimes I don't know, this is just me, but I feel like I don't deserve anything.

:

Like, I feel like I'm not worthy, per se.

:

Oh, wow.

:

And you're not.

:

But that's okay.

:

That's what my spiritual director told me.

:

So, like, you know, so, like, when I go to church and that kind of stuff, that's kind of how I feel, you know?

:

And the reality is.

:

No, you.

:

Everybody's worthy, but.

:

Exactly.

:

And you have to.

:

To.

:

What you were saying, though, is, like, I can't provide the value that I want to actually provide if I also can't stay in business.

:

Yeah, well.

:

And, you know, I don't want to take a.

:

I don't take a weird thing here.

:

But it's funny as you're saying that it makes me reflect even in my own emotion.

:

Just only a few minutes ago, as I tried to.

:

You know, first of all, I asked Brian to come to our.

:

And I'm talking to you on him now.

:

Third person, first person, whatever.

:

You were so gracious.

:

Yeah.

:

I'm gonna come out and spend the day, and we pick your brain.

:

Right?

:

So.

:

Yeah.

:

And it's a little bit.

:

You know, I'm like, okay.

:

I don't want to take advantage of them and stuff.

:

So part of me is like, yeah, I'll throw you a little.

:

Little gas money or whatever, just to kind of fill balance.

:

And then.

:

And.

:

And then you're like, no, no, no, or whatever, and I'm like, oh, yeah, A little feminine, maybe.

:

But anyway.

:

No, I'm kidding.

:

But it's funny because it made me think, when you're talking, if you did not take it, it would almost make me feel bad, you know, Like, I I feel like I had this appreciation for you coming.

:

I had, you know, I felt, wow, that's really cool you came.

:

It was nice.

:

I wanted.

:

This is one little thing I could do.

:

And then if you're like.

:

Like this, you stop cycling it.

:

It.

:

It kind of.

:

Yeah, it kind of.

:

It's actually a worse feeling than you take, you know?

:

Yeah, you know, I mean, because you now, when you did take it, I was like, oh, crap, I could have used that later.

:

No, but.

:

No, but, you know that.

:

But that is.

:

It is weird because this.

:

In that little tiny exchange as we're talking about it, I'm reflecting it more and it's like, that is a.

:

That is a serious point.

:

That is something you can.

:

Yeah, I think, like you were saying, those, like, people who want to give the most, who want to give back to the world, they tend to have a hard time to.

:

To receive it when they need it, whether they like it.

:

Like it or not, they might need help, and they won't ask because they're so used to giving and giving and giving, and they just won't ask, you know, and, you know, I think.

:

You know, I know I've always struggled with.

:

With receiving help from anybody, you know, so let me help you out with your.

:

Your AC unit.

:

That's broken.

:

It's like, no, I can fix it myself.

:

Yeah.

:

You know, well, that's part of our culture too, right?

:

We're all.

:

All about.

:

I had a herniated belly button one time, and.

:

Yeah, that in itself's embarrassing.

:

Had been on a podcast.

:

It's kind of gross, actually.

:

The kids were, like, really grossed out by it.

:

It sticks out like Audi instead of any.

:

Or something like that.

:

Anyway, that's messed up.

:

I'm not even going to show anybody right now.

:

I could.

:

No, it's back in.

:

I got it fixed, but anyway, I couldn't.

:

He said not to lift anything now.

:

Mark just told me he had a cataract out, and apparently when you lift something heavy, it messes your eyes up.

:

That's a weird.

:

Okay, the belly button I get.

:

But the eye, like, really, you can lift the thing up and it messes your eye up, but okay.

:

Put the strain on your eye.

:

Yeah, he had a cut out.

:

Like.

:

Yeah, like, he had, like, surgery on.

:

I just.

:

Well, yeah, I'm not working because the.

:

Only thing I'm thinking, I'm like, I've just never thought, like, I left something heavy.

:

I'm like, oh, my eye.

:

But anyway, I'm at Sam's club and I couldn't get my water or.

:

No, I had to have someone help me carry, you know, put the water in.

:

And I'm like, I had to wait for someone to help me put the water.

:

And it was humbling.

:

I was like, damn, this is weird.

:

And so you're just going to have to eventually deal with it when you get old once you have a belly button.

:

You ever had any bad surgeries or anything weird?

:

You want your Venom podcast?

:

You want to get started?

:

Yeah.

:

So I was.

:

I was deaf in my right ear until I was 20.

:

Really?

:

Nearly deaf.

:

It wasn't like completely deaf.

:

I had a tumor in my.

:

In my head.

:

Yeah.

:

What?

:

Yeah.

:

So it ate away my all my inner ear.

:

It was attached to my facial nerve.

:

And when I was 20, they took it off and they reconstructed my ear.

:

Holy crap.

:

So this got serious real fast.

:

Yeah, it was.

:

It was.

:

So you were a 19 year old with cancer or 20 year old.

:

I.

:

I don't know if it was.

:

I don't know if it was cancer, but it was a tumor.

:

I don't.

:

I never really guess.

:

Got that.

:

Wait a minute.

:

Are we Back to the 300 and 500?

:

You making it sound a little worse?

:

No, I said it was tumor.

:

Okay.

:

Sorry.

:

Yeah, so that's how it was explained to me.

:

The doctor explained to me that it consumed.

:

This is how he explained it to me.

:

He said it consumed my inner ear.

:

Damn.

:

And then it was attached to my facial nerve.

:

And he said from his estimates.

:

And again, this is what he told me, is that if we would have waited another five years, it could have potentially made half my face paralyzed.

:

So how.

:

I mean, was it.

:

Did you not notice your hear was.

:

Your hearing was.

:

Oh, they knew.

:

My whole life, they knew.

:

Huh?

:

They just.

:

I don't know if they.

:

If they knew there was a tumor in there or what happened.

:

But it got worse when I went to college, and I'm like, we got to get this fixed, Mom.

:

I'm like.

:

I told my mom, I'm like, so.

:

Your whole life you couldn't hear out of your right ear or not?

:

Very little.

:

Very little.

:

Very little.

:

Yeah.

:

And the whole time your mom knew you had a tumor and it should come out or not.

:

We should get her on the podcast.

:

Yeah.

:

That's a whole nother podcast.

:

Yeah.

:

Talk about.

:

Yeah, we'll bring her in.

:

Mom, why did you.

:

Why did you abuse me?

:

Yeah.

:

Yeah.

:

She's like, shut up.

:

Right?

:

I'm watching Netflix.

:

Yeah.

:

Yeah.

:

I'm not really sure how that whole happened.

:

When I was a kid, But I had bad hearing.

:

And they told her every time, you gotta get the hearing fixed, you know?

:

Oh, no.

:

My son tells the story all the time.

:

He said he had a chest pain.

:

And I'm like, just leave me alone.

:

I'm changing the channel.

:

And then he went to.

:

And he did have something he had to get fixed or something.

:

I was like, deal with it, Zeke.

:

All right, sorry, go ahead.

:

What is your youngest?

:

Wow.

:

So.

:

Yeah.

:

Yeah.

:

Who cares about the youngest?

:

You know, I shouldn't even joke about that.

:

Yeah.

:

Yeah.

:

So I had my ear reconstructed when I was 20.

:

I had my appendix appendicitis when I was.

:

I think I was 13, dude.

:

Because we have a niece that died at 12 from that.

:

Whoa.

:

Yeah.

:

So what's wild is that, like, I got my appendix out when I was 12.

:

I think it was.

:

And then.

:

Let me explain.

:

My birthday was like, a week later, So I say 13.

:

So, like, I was in recovery during my birthday because one of my friends, they were having a birthday party and they were mad that I wasn't able to go, but I showed up anyway.

:

Now she just had.

:

I guess they were saying she was almost having, like, some flu, like, symptoms.

:

Cold, I don't know, something.

:

And complained about some stomach.

:

It was asymptomatic, they called it.

:

So it wasn't really exactly that, but it ultimately, I think maybe because her has been seeping out or something.

:

Like, whatever they call.

:

Like, she.

:

Like, her body became.

:

But yeah, she just like, boom, man.

:

Just like, she's.

:

She so must have stood up and said, I can't see, and then fell over and.

:

Wow, that.

:

So it's pretty heavy topic in our family and sharing.

:

You know, if I talk to anyone where they have those symptoms, you're like, hey, you need to.

:

So that's.

:

Yeah.

:

That's pretty serious stuff, right?

:

I mean, I.

:

Yeah, I.

:

I don't.

:

Think I realized when I was that young how big of a deal it was.

:

Yeah.

:

Because I remember when they told us.

:

Told me that I had appendicitis.

:

I need to have surgery.

:

My dad was like.

:

He was, like, crying, and I'm like, we crying about, dude.

:

Then your mom did.

:

Was your mom watching?

:

I don't.

:

I remember what my dad.

:

Because I remember his eyes getting, like, swollen up in red, and his heart, like, heart rate started like.

:

Oh, you could just tell, you know, his face got really red and his.

:

He looked like he was, you know, not in, you know, good state.

:

And his eyes swelled up because he was really nervous.

:

I just remember, like, being there and just remember feeling emotional.

:

Because he was feeling emotional.

:

Yeah, but.

:

But like, I didn't realize how serious it was at first.

:

I mean, it's, you know, for my.

:

Niece, I wouldn't, you know, I mean, someone say I got appendix, whatever.

:

I don't know.

:

Yeah.

:

I mean, if it's not treated, it could definitely.

:

Well, could.

:

Yeah, it could definitely, unfortunately, you know, kill you.

:

Yeah.

:

I was lucky enough to.

:

At 13.

:

That was your.

:

That happened at 13.

:

And then at 20.

:

Ear tumor thing.

:

Yeah.

:

So 13 had my appendix.

:

Tonsils got removed.

:

They were.

:

Yeah.

:

That's everyone.

:

That's not a big deal.

:

And then my ear.

:

That's.

:

Since then though, I've been.

:

The ear and the appendix are big.

:

Yeah, the ear and appendix were big.

:

But I've been, you know.

:

Okay.

:

I forgot where we were at before this discussion.

:

To tell you truth.

:

I don't know either.

:

You're talking about.

:

We talk about.

:

Have we talked about digital marketing?

:

The what?

:

Oh, your Audi.

:

Yeah.

:

What was the third one in the go giver.

:

Your income is determined by how many people you serve and how well you serve them.

:

The most valuable gift you have to offer is yourself.

:

That's number four, Right.

:

Your true worth is determined by how much more you give in value than you take in payment.

:

Yep.

:

And what's number.

:

What's the other one?

:

They're not.

:

You've read every one.

:

But with the one we need, the.

:

Key to effective giving is to stay open to receiving.

:

That was number five.

:

Yeah.

:

It also.

:

Your influence is determined by how abundantly you place other people's interests first.

:

Yes, that's it.

:

So how you place.

:

Wow.

:

Other people's interests before your own.

:

So I do gotta go back and read.

:

That sounds good.

:

It is one of the.

:

I mean, I'm so glad that you gave it to me because it is literally one of the most impactful books I've read at a spiritual.

:

Spiritual level.

:

But as like a business owner too, trying to grow a business.

:

Well, that's what I thought it was like a religious church.

:

I tried to look it up and I don't think the guy is.

:

I don't think the.

:

I don't.

:

That's what's weird.

:

It has to be.

:

I mean, you know, like Tom up here, you know, he don't.

:

He's not in any of this.

:

Any of our faith life stuff, but I tell him all the time, dude, the stuff you do, it's God's.

:

God.

:

God's imprints in it.

:

You know, it's God coming through you.

:

Know, it's kind of funny you say that because I have a buddy of mine, he's my best man at my wedding.

:

His name's Tom as well.

:

And he, he, you know, he claims he's a, like an atheist or, you know, he doesn't believe or whatever he does, but he is one of the most non religious, religious people I know.

:

Yeah, well, that's like he.

:

Yeah, well, I don't, I shouldn't say, I don't know if he said, he doesn't say he's atheist or anything, but he's not participating or active in anything.

:

But yet he behaves like he is and he comes up with stuff that is only.

:

There's no way.

:

It has to be through God.

:

The stuff he comes up with.

:

Yeah, I mean, I don't know.

:

I, I used to be afraid of like talking about God and like religion in general.

:

But over the last like six months to a year, I've, I've been more open with how I talk about things.

:

Yeah, I used to be very afraid of like, oh, what are people going to think about if I say, you know, whatever.

:

Yeah.

:

And then I reflected one day and I was like, that's embarrassing.

:

Like that's.

:

Why would you be, you know, if you, if you do this at home, if you pray every day before dinner at home, why don't you pray when you're at dinner at a restaurant?

:

You know, and that's something I've been trying to get better with because it's part of who I am and it's part of who I am.

:

I have to say that twice.

:

I don't know why that was weird or I think, I think what I wanted to say was it's part of who I am and who I want to be, you know.

:

And now we know what you wanted to say.

:

Yeah, and that's what I wanted to say.

:

I think, I don't know, you know.

:

Did you see the Ohio State football story?

:

This just happened.

:

Like, I don't know when the last couple days.

:

Master Teague and a couple other guys.

:

It did a huge like spiritual.

:

I don't know what it was called but they were baptizing.

:

They had, I don't forget how many hundreds.

:

I mean it looked like thousands of kids participating.

:

And they were interviewed them.

:

I saw it on Fox, but Tommy had a couple friends actually went to it and they said it was amazing.

:

Like all these.

:

And they basically saying, you know, Jesus is what you're looking for and so many kids are looking in the wrong place.

:

Yeah, that was their kind of their message.

:

Like, you know, you're looking in all these other areas and what you really want is right here, you know, and some things you said, meaning peace, comfort, whatever.

:

But yeah, we, we freely talk about it on, on the Making Sense podcast.

:

Yeah, I mean, I think we put our faith in a lot of different things that aren't that don't give you that meaning or don't give you that purpose a lot.

:

You know, Money.

:

No, it's false.

:

Gods.

:

Yeah.

:

New PlayStation.

:

Yeah.

:

Madden 25.

:

My new.

:

My new iPad.

:

Your new iPad.

:

I could have went to something.

:

Yeah, well, let me say this too.

:

I think I've always liked, you know, and I don't mind talking politics, religion or anything and.

:

But I said I gotta love the person first.

:

I mean, isn't that such.

:

We, we got into our last podcast, a little bit about our culture and all the, all the hatred and the divisiveness and that.

:

That is the saddest thing to me.

:

It's like, I, I mean, people, I don't care if they're Christian or not, I'm going to love the person.

:

Right.

:

You know, so that has, you know, we're not here to be like, hey, you got to be following the same thing we're following.

:

I don't in any way think that, but I just, I think for me, and I'm guessing you, it sounds like, yeah, that that's where I get the greatest peace, you know.

:

And then also in the Go Giver book, a lot of the virtuous things they talk in there is thing we're taught in faith.

:

And guess what?

:

I've even told people it could even be greed, right?

:

I mean, if you follow these guidelines, it still ends up being a success for yourself, right?

:

I mean, there's a lot of times that those things of serving others first actually end up serving.

:

You know, it's the thing at the end, whatever.

:

Like you said, receiving, right.

:

You know, when you do these things, you can receive back.

:

But more importantly, it's about that.

:

The.

:

In my opinion, I guess real quick, yeah, we're really going to get down here saying, but, you know, I don't know, what is the money for?

:

Right?

:

Like, you know, you have so much money.

:

Yeah, can I buy an iPad?

:

Can I do this and that?

:

And yet to have a moment with something, like, I had something happen this week with a kid, needed help and he approached me and I had this little exchange with him and I got him in touch.

:

He was struggling with some addiction and stuff.

:

Like that.

:

And we talked, and I couldn't pay for that feeling I had after.

:

Right.

:

You know, that.

:

That emotion that I got of helping that kid for a minute.

:

And I thought, you know, that that's the point.

:

That's the magic.

:

Right.

:

It's that.

:

It's that eternal money.

:

It's not this worldly money.

:

Yeah.

:

All right, I'm going off on it.

:

No, I agree with you on that.

:

I mean, I think, you know, even if you're just a selfish person, like, the feelings that you get when you help other people is.

:

Are worth it.

:

So.

:

Yeah.

:

So even if I was a selfish person, like, I'd feel the same way.

:

Like, I.

:

You know, once you feel these feelings, you're like, oh, man.

:

Wow, this is weird.

:

But I think overall, if you do this, if you live this kind of life, even if you are selfish at the start, you probably won't be at the end because you're actually, you know, like, I coach youth sports.

:

We're in flag football season right now.

:

Like, nothing feels better.

:

Seeing a kid who struggled at the beginning of the season now starting to see everything come together and click.

:

Oh, yeah.

:

At the end.

:

So it's kind of like the same.

:

It's a little bit, you know, or seeing the kid that has the attitude at the beginning of the season, and then all of a sudden, at the end, they don't have an attitude anymore.

:

It's like, well, what happened, you know, what happened from when you started to, like, now that made it so that you don't have that attitude with us anymore?

:

It's.

:

It's like, well, you.

:

You look back in the mirror, you go, you're coaching style.

:

Your impact changed that kid's perspective.

:

Wow.

:

That was.

:

Yeah.

:

So that's probably one of the greatest opportunities to do that in coaching, right?

:

Yeah.

:

Yeah.

:

What a sack.

:

You don't get paid for any of that, do you?

:

I wish.

:

No, I would do it.

:

I would do it for free.

:

I mean, I do it for.

:

Oh, you are getting paid.

:

No, I don't get paid.

:

I'm saying.

:

What I'm saying is I would.

:

I would say, like, I would if.

:

I know, you know, I would do it for free.

:

It's just like one of those passions, you know?

:

No, well, the coaches that do get paid, they're.

:

I mean, they're not even getting paid anything anyway, so.

:

I mean, I'm just kidding around, but.

:

No, I think that's all.

:

That's super on.

:

Yeah, I've never.

:

I tried to coach once, you know, and I.

:

Because I do filming.

:

In fact, tonight I got to do music at a football game.

:

I get all into that and I.

:

I sat there and gave a speech for about 10 minutes about what hole to go through the running.

:

I was a running back in high school, and as soon as I stepped back, the other coach goes, you just told the kids the wrong number.

:

Like, I completely told him the wrong thing.

:

And I'm like, just give me my camera back.

:

I'm done.

:

Well, the.

:

That comes down to, like, there's so many different philosophies you can follow.

:

So maybe you're telling the gap that you were taught.

:

You know what I mean?

:

No, I mean, it was like literally the wrong.

:

Like, isn't there like on the line, there's hole 1, 2, 3, whatever.

:

Oh, yeah, they called.

:

Yeah, they do.

:

Like the A gap, B gap, you know.

:

Yeah, but isn't there, like.

:

Well, you.

:

The hole is one or two.

:

Or maybe there's different.

:

Maybe it is different.

:

I don't know.

:

I've seen.

:

I've seen a different way.

:

See, I could have used that.

:

I could have said, well, that's because I was used to this other formation and system.

:

I didn't know Lucas had this system.

:

See, I thought it was just everyone called, you know, the very right of the center, you know, hole one or one.

:

Yeah, well, that's what I'm saying.

:

I said that wrong.

:

Like, whatever is standard procedure.

:

I couldn't even get that part right.

:

Yeah, okay.

:

To me, it doesn't matter.

:

You know what I mean?

:

Well, it might to the kid that gets smashed.

:

Because also, so I think it's consistency.

:

Hey, Bryce, what's your.

:

Yeah, there's your son's name.

:

Bryce.

:

Yeah, he's Bryce.

:

Consistency is what I'm trying to say.

:

You know what I mean?

:

So you can go the wrong hole, do it every time.

:

I'm just saying, like, you.

:

There's so many different, like, such different terminology from even from a year from when you were growing up to where I'm at now.

:

You know, we.

:

When I was coaching tackle the first year, there weren't like, you know, we didn't taught gaps.

:

You know, we weren't teaching like the kids gaps.

:

They were, I mean, 8 year olds.

:

But you seem obsessed with my age or something.

:

You're always bringing stuff up like, you know where you're at or.

:

Oh, that's not what I'm trying to say.

:

Something really old.

:

What I'm trying to say is like, your dad, he's dead.

:

I know that's Well, I said, you're like my son.

:

He's dead, so.

:

Each other.

:

Yes.

:

That's creepy.

:

Yeah, that's really.

:

Yeah.

:

This is dark.

:

Yeah.

:

Dark.

:

Dark.

:

Yeah.

:

What I'm trying to say.

:

All is to be said, is that it depends on how you teach the kids.

:

You know, it doesn't matter if you.

:

If everybody says it's gap, you know, the one gap or the A gap, you know, as long as it's consistent, you know, so what I'm trying to.

:

I'm trying to make you feel better.

:

Okay.

:

We went down a weird path here.

:

I don't know.

:

I don't know where we're going.

:

We left a real heavy nugget on the table.

:

We're just gonna let it go away.

:

I'll just push it.

:

All the things.

:

Yeah.

:

All right.

:

Well, we do private.

:

I mean, you probably.

:

What time is it, Reagan?

:

Poor Brian.

:

3:22.

:

Oh, that went like.

:

We were at 20 to three last time, weren't we?

:

Yeah, I could.

:

You're barely going to make it.

:

Would you have to be back by 5?

:

5:30.

:

Oh, okay.

:

We'll get you out here in next five minutes.

:

Yeah, we got a little time.

:

Okay, so.

:

And now.

:

So now.

:

So you're in the digital marketing.

:

Yep.

:

And then how long have you been doing that before I've reached it, like, from your universal windows.

:

Yeah.

:

So it's like four years.

:

Oh, okay.

:

So it's not, like, a whole lot of experience.

:

Yeah, well, it seems like more than what we're doing.

:

No, it's actually about the same, so.

:

But you learned a lot more quicker.

:

I think.

:

I have.

:

Well, I think there's a.

:

There's.

:

There's facets to that.

:

Okay.

:

So when you focus on one thing, you become an expert faster.

:

Okay.

:

You know, I mean, you guys are.

:

You guys are.

:

Well, you're all into your math stuff, so.

:

Which really adds a lot to what's going.

:

Basically, you know, not to praise myself, but, like.

:

Sorry.

:

Not to praise myself or anything.

:

I was gonna make it a joke, but you just ruined it with your bro.

:

But not to praise myself or anything, but I am very.

:

One skill that I believe that God has given me is the ability to learn.

:

And I know that sounds really quirky and weird, but it's true.

:

When you hear one of these new employees.

:

I'm a quick learner.

:

That's when you know they don't know anything.

:

Well, I am, okay.

:

I am blessed with the ability to find resources and to be able to build from it.

:

You know what I Mean, you've experienced that, too.

:

If you say so.

:

Yeah.

:

I mean, so, like.

:

So, like, my goal is always to, like, you know, simplify things for everybody.

:

Yeah.

:

You know, so, you know.

:

Yeah, maybe I've only maybe been doing it at the same time, but, like, I was focused directly on it, really.

:

And, like, I don't know, just going out there.

:

Yeah.

:

So hours learning.

:

So what's your fit?

:

Okay.

:

And then, you know, we'll try to bring this home.

:

What.

:

What would you say?

:

What's, like, the fun now in saying all the things we've talked about, which we've talked about God and profession.

:

Your ear and your lack of views.

:

But anyway, what.

:

Your exaggerated views, I should say.

:

What's the funnest thing you do now?

:

Like, what do you enjoy the most when you're doing this?

:

I mean, I could maybe guess from some of the things you said, but let's just say, do you have a.

:

Even a story that you can share or is there something specific?

:

You're like, man, when this happens, that's kind of the match.

:

That's what I really wake up for that.

:

Well, I kind of touched on it with coaching, but I won't get into coaching.

:

But for a business, you can.

:

Whatever it is, I don't care.

:

I mean, I think for, like, the most.

:

The most fun to me is when I see the kids.

:

You go out there and complete what we're trying to do.

:

Yeah, that's my favorite thing to do.

:

I would do it 247 every day.

:

Maybe not 24 7.

:

That'd be a lot.

:

But I would.

:

I would literally be a coach if I could be, you know, in youth sports or even in high school or beyond, if that.

:

I know that's a weird path, but, like, that's what.

:

Yeah, no, that's cool.

:

My goal is one day to be able to bring enough money in and then be able to do that and serve the kids around me to help them become better people.

:

That's what.

:

That's what I like to do.

:

Yeah, I like seeing one.

:

I like to see them complete, like the defense or the offensive, you know, whatever we're working on, I mean, actually do it properly and understand why we're doing, you know, routes, certain ways.

:

But I also like seeing, like, the kids grow, you know, and so we had a really rough travel season.

:

Travel baseball season.

:

We lost all but two games.

:

We got.

:

Wow.

:

And these losses weren't, like, by.

:

I mean, we lost, out of all of our losses, only one game.

:

We lost by one run.

:

Wow.

:

What's the worst one?

:

Like, by like 20.

:

So we got.

:

We got run ruled in every game.

:

How far away were you when you lost that one?

:

It doesn't matter.

:

The long ride home.

:

Not when you're used to.

:

So.

:

So we lost a lot of games.

:

And you can really see which characters came out of the kids.

:

Yeah.

:

And trying to coach them up with the character, you know, characteristics that you want them to coach up, that's very hard thing to do.

:

You know, seeing kids throw stuff in the dugout and break stuff and like, you're like, what the heck did I get myself into?

:

Yeah.

:

And you're trying to, like, you know, trying to get them to feel their feelings, but in a healthy way.

:

So I think that's like the best feeling is watching them kind of work through that and help them get through it while.

:

While keeping yourself tame.

:

Because it's very easy to lose your temper.

:

I could see that.

:

Did you ever lose your temper?

:

I was actually pretty chill.

:

I'm actually, you know, makes for boring podcasts, you know.

:

So, like, when I coached my first year in tackle, I was like, really more passionate.

:

I yelled a little bit more.

:

And over.

:

Over the years, I've just kind of calmed down.

:

I'm passionate still, you know, But I'm not that coach that screams at kid.

:

I don't scream at kids.

:

I've never screamed at kids like that.

:

I've gotten.

:

I get.

:

I get hard on Bryce.

:

Like.

:

Like, I.

:

You always like worse on your own kid?

:

Probably.

:

Yeah.

:

So we try not to coach your own kids.

:

That's pretty good.

:

It drives me nuts with Bryce because he's.

:

He's a talented athlete.

:

Right now he's out of shape, so it drives me nuts because he's slow.

:

But I try not.

:

I try to be the coach that's trying to teach and encourage.

:

Yeah.

:

The coach that I would have.

:

I would want, you know, which.

:

I kind of had a couple coaches like that growing up.

:

Not like the coaches that you find in football all across the country where they're just screaming at kids and the kids are crying and like, oh, it's going to build character.

:

That's not built character.

:

I'm sorry.

:

In my opinion, that doesn't build character.

:

Did you ever see Division 3 football at movie?

:

Oh, gosh.

:

It's funny.

:

Everyone I've shared here hates it.

:

I think it's not funny, but if you get a chance, check it out.

:

I'll watch.

:

It has Andy Dick in it.

:

It's very inappropriate, but it's funny.

:

Okay.

:

I'll take a look.

:

Okay, so Division three.

:

I got Division three.

:

It's like, you know, Division three, college football.

:

Okay, so is it like bench warmers or something?

:

Probably, yeah, kind of.

:

Yeah, it's.

:

It's very rough.

:

Probably isn't even.

:

It's definitely not woke.

:

It's pre.

:

Woke.

:

Okay, well, that's.

:

I'm thinking.

:

So it's.

:

If I use the terms right, I'm too old to even know if I'm using that term.

:

Right.

:

When did woke start?

:

I think I just feel like that's out of fashion now.

:

Obama.

:

I think it started during Obama.

:

Yeah, that's really.

:

Maybe.

:

I think maybe even before that.

:

I thought that was.

:

No, it didn't start before that.

:

I thought that was like:

:

That's when woke started.

:

No, because that's.

:

I graduated high school in:

:

Yeah, maybe.

:

Apparently then it was Obama then.

:

I don't know.

:

Yeah.

:

What was the.

:

I wonder what the.

:

Well, let's not go down there.

:

Practice.

:

We've already covered enough, crossed enough lines, so.

:

All right, so really, you.

:

The truth is, you know, even we should just say making sense about coaching football or something, because at this point we haven't.

:

Yeah, well, so.

:

So to flip it on, like the digital side.

:

No, I do.

:

I did want to hear about that.

:

I think it's.

:

I agree.

:

I mean, you get more, but you got it.

:

You must have some reward in the business part, too.

:

Oh, yeah.

:

So.

:

So for me, it.

:

The most reward is when I can.

:

When I can communicate the benefits of what we're trying to do and why.

:

There's two type of customers that I found.

:

Either one, they're compliant and they understand and they're willing to learn and they're willing to sit and take your advice.

:

Just a little rough, but all right.

:

Like, yeah, take care.

:

Yeah, but go ahead.

:

But they're willing to, like, listen and hear you out.

:

But then there's other clients that just don't give a crap.

:

Oh, yeah.

:

So.

:

So as marketers, as digital marketers, as print, we have to find a way to explain why we expect what we expect.

:

So, you know, we had a client and they're probably not going to watch this.

:

So I'll say.

:

Anyway, you know, they were getting 16 and a half ROAS, so 16.5 return on AD spend.

:

So for every dollar we were spending on meta, they were getting 16 and a half back.

:

And they were disappointed.

:

They were upset.

:

They're like, this isn't good enough.

:

Wow.

:

And I'm like, so I wasn't in the meeting, but I was told after the, after the meeting about what happened and I was kind of like a little frustrated because I'm like, you know, what'd you guys say?

:

And they're like, oh, we just, you know, didn't.

:

Nothing.

:

Yeah.

:

And I was kind of frustrated with my team about it because.

:

Because for me it's a two lane road, you know, like.

:

So.

:

Yeah.

:

You're working with the clients and our goal is to help.

:

Help them, but at the same time, we can only help so much.

:

We can't.

:

I think I priority.

:

Yeah.

:

Know this.

:

But how do you solve that ahead of time?

:

So I, I think it's about expectations.

:

Yeah.

:

Defining expectations.

:

Yeah.

:

And it was obviously not done well.

:

So this is on us for not expectations.

:

We got a story.

:

Reagan will remember it because we had the.

:

So many people use a call tracking, you know, call rail.

:

Yeah.

:

And we had a guy that said, oh, stop running my local service ads or something like that.

:

And maybe.

:

Or maybe it was that maybe because those record.

:

Right.

:

Don't they record again?

:

Yeah.

:

So if I remember this right, and here we had all these recordings of, say of people calling in and him talking to him and he's telling us, I didn't get anything.

:

Yeah.

:

I mean, it couldn't be more evident.

:

And.

:

But what do you.

:

You can't just say, hey, you're totally lying or you don't get whatever.

:

You know, we just had to go through.

:

I think now he's coming.

:

Is he going to come start doing them again?

:

He's already done that.

:

Yep.

:

Oh, here we go.

:

We're back.

:

So we had to just kind of bite your tongue.

:

You don't know what's going on in their personal life or whatever.

:

You know, they might just be going through something.

:

They don't want to hear it.

:

I don't know.

:

So I think there's two ways you can, you can approach it kind of how you guys did, which you bit your tongue or you can be like, you have to decide as a business owner too.

:

Yeah.

:

You don't have any.

:

You have to decide as a business owner too, like which clients you want to work with because like I said, it's a two lane road.

:

You know, if this guy kind of guys like, you know, lashing out at you guys because he's not getting any calls, maybe he's not your client.

:

Yeah.

:

So I think for me, how I handle.

:

I would handle it is kind of like it Depends.

:

Depends on how their, their mood actually is and how they're talking.

:

Well, this guy was cool.

:

It was just this one thing.

:

But yeah, so if he's cool, then.

:

You know, and I'm not someone that's like, oh, you got to prove it to him that you're doing your job.

:

But there are a lot of skeptics out there and they don't believe that you're actually doing your job because there's a lot of bad marketing companies out there.

:

And, you know, market being a marketing company is a really, what, tabooed name, like company?

:

It's like.

:

Because at least in my eyes, whenever I think of marketing, I think of like the devil or something like, you know, persuasion.

:

Yeah.

:

People trying to steal money and you're not doing their job.

:

e right now, at least like in:

:

Yeah, but I think, like.

:

Well, I think what you have, I'm going to say from the old guy perspective, you know, you've got this whole new medium, which is still pretty new, even though it's been around for a little.

:

You know, the digital marketing, when there's parts of it that keep changing and developing and it's so complex.

:

Right.

:

I mean, just to communicate now, in my lifetime, I mean, either wrote a letter or you called someone or you saw them in person.

:

Now we probably got 20 different.

:

What, the telegram.

:

Telegram guy just got arrested or whatever, you know, I mean, like, you know, you saw that, right?

:

No, I didn't.

:

Oh.

:

Because they said he wasn't cooperating with the police for child pornography or something.

:

They arrested him in France.

:

So it's a big to do right now about social media.

:

And who won't, you know, because it'd be like Elon Musk, you know, someone does them a tweeter and they arrest the CEO.

:

I mean, it's crazy.

:

So I don't, I don't know the right answer, but, but, but anyway, the point is, what I'm saying is it's a little bit of the wild west, right.

:

So I think it's more suspect to garbage, you know, people, you know.

:

Yeah.

:

Just swindling people, you know, in other words, it's easier to do in that environment.

:

Yeah.

:

So I think going off of what you're saying too, is that it's.

:

It definitely is easier because not as many people are educated about it.

:

And I think good marketers, at least I would.

:

This is.

:

Maybe I'm setting the bar really high for Us, but I think they should be good educators too.

:

No, I'm with you.

:

Kind of educating what you should expect and what you shouldn't.

:

And the problem is that like, you know, we're in it for money too.

:

So like we're making money and we're making money on the job that we're doing.

:

So it's in my best interest to say, oh yeah, digital works great.

:

Even if I'm being completely honest and saying, listen, if, if you can't get digital work, there's a, there's something wrong with what you're trying to do.

:

Right.

:

And I could be completely honest and I could be, you know, but there's always that negative connotation that like I'm in it for the money.

:

So, so I think that's just a part of our jobs to you know, prove to them first, that and build trust.

:

And I think.

:

But, but I've heard you even talk.

:

I mean there's a lot of elements that, right.

:

Like if someone's coming to you and they're like, I have 300amonth to spend.

:

And you know, that's not.

:

Because this is a card of the discussions we've had.

:

Right.

:

You're like, you got to spend at least XYZ here.

:

You're telling them, yeah, no, it's not going to work.

:

Right.

:

So, yeah, I, I remember one time someone said, you know, when you're ultra honest or something and that's kind of person that worries about coming across dishonest.

:

They're like, don't worry, you're too honest to even think about it.

:

So I think that's, you know, I was just from the little bit I met you at least.

:

Yeah.

:

Unless you're really good at it and you do it long term.

:

Maybe I'm just really clever.

:

Yeah, yeah.

:

No, I don't think playing the long game of dishonesty.

:

No, that's.

:

I, well, I gotta say the 500 view thing might be a little kink in the Google.

:

Check out my channel.

:

I do have like, I do have quite a few views on that channel.

:

I have multi thousand views.

:

We'll probably go back and look and Reagan looked it up wrong or something.

:

Probably had 3 million views.

:

I thought I had like 600 at least on that, that video.

:

But I could, I mean he said 300, so I don't know, maybe they, I don't know, it doesn't matter.

:

I don't even go on.

:

I, I try to post but I want to post but I just don't have time but yeah, I think, I think honesty, like you said, is what we need to go for.

:

And I think if you are an honest person, that it's easier to transfer.

:

Like, what you're trying to actually do is actually good for people and you're trying to serve them versus trying to take money from them.

:

But I think for, like, us as marketers, you have to provide value first.

:

You know, it's a little bit different than probably what you're used to is like, hey, listen, I'll, you know, you can advertise my magazine and it's this much money.

:

And that's a little bit different because in digital, a lot of it, like a lot of things that's going on right now, like trend wise is guarantees, you know, I guarantee you X amount of leads or your money back or I'll give you a free month of social posting.

:

Actually, I don't think that's new.

:

I've heard, in fact, one of our rep, well, she's a franchise now, worked at a paper and they had digital programs and they had that.

:

Now the problem was, so even with that is like, she had some dentists, she said, next thing you know, the guy's getting leads from like 200 miles away or something.

:

Like, in other words, they were just populating the.

:

The leads or whatever or the.

:

I don't know how it even would get done, but it wasn't.

:

In other words, it checked the box off of what she promised, but it wasn't what the intention was of what was being sold, you know?

:

Yeah, that's like the whole genie thing.

:

Right.

:

Like, you have to be very specific with what you're wishing for.

:

Right.

:

You know, like, I don't know if you guys have seen the twist on that.

:

Like in certain movies and stuff.

:

It's like you wish for something and they give it to you, but.

:

And you get to sacrifice something else.

:

Right, Right.

:

So that sounds like real life.

:

Yeah.

:

So, like, that's a.

:

So like, it comes down to being honest.

:

Are you honest person or not?

:

And yes, I could say I could give you, you know, oh, we can get you.

:

I can get you 500 leads a month and then all of a sudden give you 500 leads from, you know, 700 people that aren't qualified.

:

Right, right.

:

People from overseas.

:

Overseas.

:

Nothing to do.

:

Yeah.

:

So I think that's like us just balancing it, providing, you know, like, the podcast is a great idea because we could sit here, have conversations, differences in opinions, all that kind of stuff.

:

Talk about football, whatever, and people get to meet who we are before they even talk to us as, like a franchisee and a company owner.

:

So they can kind of.

:

That's what digital is about.

:

That's what organic's about.

:

I think a lot of people forget that in organic posting.

:

It's not about you.

:

It's not about selling things.

:

You know, organic, social.

:

If you're posting right now, I'm calling out to all the audience members.

:

If you're posting to sell on organic, you're doing it wrong.

:

Just.

:

There we go.

:

Big tip right there.

:

Because organic's about building trust and getting people to know who you are and being genuine.

:

If you don't do that, then I.

:

People, maybe it'll work for a little bit, but you see it all the time.

:

Charades happen.

:

And YouTube channels grow and they fall.

:

TikTok channels grow and they fall.

:

Why?

:

Because people get depressed eventually because they're no longer.

:

They're not themselves, they're not being who they're supposed to be, you know, and eventually they can't do that forever.

:

Right?

:

Right.

:

So, like, when it comes to your business and stuff too, you have to be posting organically.

:

That's all about building trust and, you know, trying to provide value before your client.

:

And you know what's even better about that is if you provide a bunch of content, even if it's just testimonials or demonstrations or, you know, experiences that you've had, you know, performance of other customers or how to make an ad for, like, us.

:

Like, how do you make an effective ad?

:

What goes into a good.

:

A good offer?

:

You know, what's a good offer versus a bad offer?

:

Like, just making videos on that and posting it on your channel.

:

The reason why it's even more effective is because when.

:

When you finally have a lead come in and they've watched three or four pieces of your content, now the question isn't it sell me, it's how can I get into this?

:

Yeah, so you don't sell anymore.

:

So, like, I think that's a big difference between, like, that is kind of cool.

:

You know, I had a.

:

I just had a lead call in for Tom Money Saver from Colorado.

:

And the guy.

:

Actually, it's the only time I've ever heard this.

:

He goes, you sound just like your videos.

:

So apparently I've maybe.

:

I think we have some marketing videos out there on YouTube or something.

:

And it just caught me funny because I never heard anybody ever say that before.

:

And I'm like, I hope I sound like my video.

:

I don't.

:

That's What I do any different.

:

That's what the goal is, right?

:

Yeah.

:

So it proves to your point, I guess, right?

:

Yeah.

:

So, like, that's what the goal is in organic.

:

Digital is kind of the same way.

:

Well, digital, you're kind of pushing for leads, too.

:

It depends on what you're.

:

I mean, it really depends on the objective for the clients.

:

Big mistakes.

:

I see a lot of clients do is they use run the wrong objectives.

:

So they might want leads, but they're like, well, I get more views if I do engagement.

:

And then.

:

But like, when you look at Facebook, they want you to tell you what they want, what you want.

:

So if you say, I want engagement, guess what they're going to give you Engagement.

:

Engagement does not equal leads.

:

You know, we're getting some really valuable stuff here at the end.

:

Yeah, so.

:

So.

:

So.

:

But leads mean leads, right?

:

Leads does not mean engagement.

:

So they're higher.

:

They're more.

:

They're more expensive to advertise to people who want leads.

:

Okay.

:

This is all on Facebook.

:

Yeah, on Facebook.

:

Digital.

:

But they're higher quality, potentially.

:

Like, they're going to show it to people who are higher quality, you know.

:

Wow, interesting.

:

So it'll be easier to sell them or not necessarily sell them.

:

I hate the word selling them because to me, it's not what we do.

:

What we do is we serve, you know.

:

Yeah.

:

I always say share.

:

You know, we share.

:

But like, you know, we want to.

:

Yeah, exactly.

:

We want to share what we have, you know, and maybe you think it's worth it, maybe you don't, but, you know, we can have that conversation and we can determine together based on experience.

:

We have, you know, testimonials, whatever it might be, you know, I don't know.

:

That's what I always feel.

:

I always feel like, you know, apparently Mark's never saw great movie that he wanted to share.

:

We were joking around us, remember, at lunch.

:

Yeah.

:

Oh, I've never seen him.

:

You know, I've seen a good movie and I just want to share.

:

It was.

:

Hey, man, you got to check this out.

:

This is cool.

:

That's how I gotta feel, right?

:

I'm walking in to sell somebody, you know, share some.

:

Share this.

:

If I don't have that passion in it, I don't want to even be.

:

Oh, yeah.

:

If I don't believe in what I've got, then why am I even in there wasting their time?

:

Yeah.

:

No, and at that point, I should be excited about serving them.

:

Like you're saying.

:

That's the whole point.

:

Hey, we did this for this tree service guy.

:

I'd love to do it for you.

:

You, too.

:

Yeah.

:

You know what I mean?

:

Yeah.

:

And what's cool is that you can, like.

:

We're wrapping up.

:

Oh, wrapping up.

:

Wrapping it up.

:

Reagan's done listening.

:

Crap.

:

We're getting kicked out.

:

Okay.

:

Yeah, that was good.

:

I mean, keep talking, you know?

:

Yeah, I.

:

I think that I lost my train, though.

:

I don't know what I think.

:

I don't know.

:

You.

:

You gave us some really good nuggets at the end.

:

Well, we want to thank Brian Von.

:

What?

:

Von London.

:

Brian Von London.

:

Can you hear good out of both ears now?

:

Pretty Good, yeah.

:

I'm 60.

:

I'm not hearing good.

:

I'm here.

:

All right, anybody want to thank Brian for coming in today, all the way from Menor, Ohio, sharing his wisdom and whatever else you call it, we just listen to.

:

And, hey, never forget, serve others.

:

You win.

:

I've never done that, but see you guys.

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About the Podcast

Making Cents: Navigating Digital & Print Marketing
with Bill Zirzow
Join host Bill Zirzow each week on "Making Cents," where we dive deep into the world of marketing—both digital and print. Bill engages with a diverse lineup of guests, exploring various marketing strategies, trends, and insights while also sharing personal life stories that inspire and entertain. Each hour-long episode offers valuable takeaways for marketers and entrepreneurs alike, blending expert advice with relatable experiences. Tune in for candid conversations that make sense of the marketing landscape and help you make the most of your marketing dollars!

About your hosts

Bill Zirzow

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Bill Zirzow, owner of Town Money Saver and TMS+, brings his expertise in both print and digital marketing to the Making Cents Podcast as the host. Known for his playful banter and the occasional jab at his guests, Bill has a knack for drawing out personal stories that resonate. He’s passionate about staying on top of the latest marketing trends and loves learning from every guest who joins the show. With a blend of humor and curiosity, Bill makes each episode both engaging and insightful.

Reagan McCullough

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As the producer of Making Cents, Reagan is the one behind the scenes making sure everything runs smoothly—well, mostly! Occasionally, Reagan steps in front of the camera to chime in, whether it's to crack a joke at Bill's expense or throw in some Gen Z perspective. Bill likes to dish it back, too, so you’ll catch some good-natured back-and-forth between them. Together, they keep the show insightful and entertaining, with plenty of laughs along the way.