Episode 5

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Published on:

6th Jan 2025

Navigating the Yogurt Universe: From Smiles to Sunshine

Join us as we dive into a delightful conversation with Mike, the owner of Soul Froyo, a vibrant frozen yogurt and creamery that has quickly become a local favorite. The episode explores the challenges and triumphs of opening the brand after the previous business closed. Mike shares insights on navigating the competitive landscape of dessert businesses, discussing the importance of marketing strategies that resonate with customers, such as leveraging social media and print advertising. We also touch on the significance of creating a welcoming environment for families and how seasonal flavors can hook customers. With a mix of humor and heartfelt anecdotes, this episode is a treat for anyone interested in entrepreneurship and the sweet world of frozen desserts.

Transcript
Host:

Right where you are.

Host:

You're sitting in an electrical matrix of energy beyond belief or most human conception.

Host:

You'll be surprised to know how much.

Mike:

Knowledge and communication can be carried on its way.

Host:

All right, here we are for another edition of what's it called?

Reagan:

Reagan Making Sense, Navigating Digital and print marketing.

Reagan:

At this point, you know, I should.

Host:

Know, but it just seems.

Host:

I don't know.

Host:

I get that's one of the bad things, Mike.

Host:

I think something's funny and I just do it way past when it's not funny.

Host:

My wife tells me that.

Host:

But anyway, we got awesome guests here today.

Host:

This is something fun.

Host:

In fact, I remember being at, you know, a giant franchise conference.

Host:

Boy, we got a long intro here.

Host:

And the.

Host:

So it was, you know, I don't know if you like to say the old yogurt place, but.

Mike:

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Host:

Okay.

Mike:

For sure.

Host:

Okay.

Host:

So Menches y.

Host:

And the.

Host:

The CEO of that was there and he said, we sell smiles, we don't sell yogurt.

Host:

And I remember I was like, what?

Host:

That's cool.

Host:

But, you know, I was like, so.

Host:

I don't know.

Host:

Did you.

Host:

So anyway, Mike here has soul fro.

Host:

It is a yogurt bar, creamery and popcorn.

Host:

So, man, you a couple extra.

Mike:

Yeah, I think.

Mike:

I think Jeff worked in the.

Mike:

And popcorn.

Host:

Ok.

Host:

Right.

Mike:

Yeah, we're a soul froyo.

Mike:

Yogurt bar and creamery.

Mike:

Yeah.

Mike:

So we have frozen yogurt and then I don't know if you've ever been to Swavery downtown.

Mike:

Oh, Swavery is awesome.

Host:

Oh, wait, is that the popcorn?

Host:

Yeah.

Host:

Okay.

Host:

Yeah, it's right by the license or the.

Host:

Where you get your.

Host:

Yeah, yeah.

Mike:

Okay.

Mike:

Down in the backyard.

Host:

Yep.

Mike:

So, you know, had their popcorn once and I'm like, oh.

Mike:

You know, I like to support local businesses.

Mike:

I mean, we're a local business and locally owned, so just had to get their popcorn.

Host:

Okay.

Mike:

Because I'm like, a lot of people in probably Ontario don't, you know, always make that trek downtown.

Mike:

They may not even know that it's there.

Host:

Yeah.

Mike:

We didn't have a popcorn place in Ontario, so that's why the popcorn's on there.

Mike:

We're not making popcorn.

Host:

Okay.

Host:

You're like an outlet for.

Host:

What's it called?

Host:

Saver or Swavery.

Mike:

Swaver.

Host:

Swaver.

Mike:

That's cool.

Host:

Yeah.

Host:

That's one things I wanted.

Host:

So what is sold for?

Host:

I don't want to sound stupid.

Host:

What does it mean?

Mike:

What's the soul is just, you know, Spanish for sun and froyo.

Mike:

For frozen yogurt.

Host:

Oh, so you're selling sunshine?

Mike:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mike:

I.

Mike:

Whenever I started this, the guy that owns the Plaza, he's.

Mike:

It's sold now, but he's from New York.

Mike:

And, you know, he.

Mike:

He was like, you know, wanted to have my business plan and everything before he.

Mike:

He'd signed the lease.

Mike:

And this was the name I sent over.

Mike:

And he's like, I don't know about that name.

Mike:

He's like, it's not going to fly.

Mike:

He's like, you should do like, Mike's frozen yogurt.

Mike:

And I'm like, oh, okay.

Mike:

And I thought about that.

Mike:

I'm like, that's.

Mike:

That's stupid.

Mike:

And, you know, then I hear people trying to pronounce soul frillian.

Mike:

I'm thinking he might have had a.

Mike:

But I think it.

Mike:

I think it draws attention to it.

Host:

Yeah, I think it's cool.

Host:

I like it.

Host:

And.

Host:

And obviously here with the artwork we have here, you know, and Mike's right here in Mansfield, where we're kind of headquartered.

Host:

And it looks like you play along with the sun, you know, you have your logo there, but then you've got the Halloween sunshine here, it looks like in the artwork.

Host:

So it gives you something, too, to play with.

Mike:

I'm guessing on the branding, we're selling sunshine.

Host:

That's better than smiles, maybe.

Host:

Yeah, I like it.

Host:

So what got you into yogurt, Mike?

Host:

Like, or what?

Host:

Yeah, tell us a little bit about your background and what got you or even in the business or you had other businesses maybe, but tell us a little bit about yourself.

Mike:

Well, when I was about, I don't know, five or six years old, I had this life changing event with frozen yogurt.

Mike:

No, I'm just kidding.

Host:

I was like, whoa, I'm leaning in.

Host:

What?

Mike:

No, I.

Mike:

I was in education for almost two decades, and I loved teaching.

Mike:

Then I went into administration.

Mike:

I was a principal and, you know, just kind of got a little bit burned out on it, especially during COVID and.

Host:

Oh, gosh, can't imagine, you know, there were.

Mike:

I.

Mike:

I think I'm probably going to totally butcher this, but I think yin yang supposedly means, you know, like, crisis and.

Mike:

No.

Mike:

Is it opportunity?

Mike:

I'm going to butcher that anyway.

Host:

Hey, you're.

Host:

You're.

Host:

You're in a comfortable place.

Mike:

Okay, so like, like the other side of crisis is opportunity, though, right?

Host:

Right?

Mike:

Yeah.

Mike:

Forget the whole yin yang thing.

Mike:

But there's.

Mike:

When there's crisis, there's also opportunity.

Mike:

And there was a guy, Stark.

Mike:

Not Stark Industries.

Mike:

Not.

Mike:

Not Not Iron Man, Stark Enterprises, out of, I think Fairlon.

Mike:

The guy owns like a bunch of real estate.

Mike:

Okay, okay.

Mike:

And he owned all of these Menchies in Northeast Ohio.

Mike:

So there was this news article.

Mike:

He closed down like, I don't know, 13 stores every Menchies in Northeast Ohio.

Mike:

He had the franchises for.

Mike:

I don't even.

Host:

Are they even around anymore?

Host:

I haven't seen them anywhere.

Mike:

I think there's like there.

Mike:

There was one in Wadsworth that he didn't own.

Mike:

I don't know if there's.

Mike:

I don't know if there's any left.

Host:

It's crazy because that.

Host:

One of those.

Host:

I was telling you at the franchise, they were like one of the fastest growing.

Mike:

Yeah.

Host:

They were so hot.

Host:

And it's.

Host:

That was fast though.

Mike:

Now I think it's either like Sweet Frog or Orange.

Mike:

They all have these like really peculiar names, you know, like, like mine.

Mike:

Yeah.

Mike:

But.

Mike:

But he closed them all down because the state had, you know, the, the.

Mike:

The Ohio Department of Health had like self serve and buffets or whatever were all shut down.

Mike:

So he was shut down for months, if you can imagine how.

Host:

Oh, did this all kind of during COVID you mean?

Mike:

Yeah.

Host:

Oh, I didn't even realize it was from.

Host:

Oh yeah, that killed us too.

Mike:

That was horrible.

Mike:

So when he was closed down for like months, he just decided to get out of it and he closed all the stores completely.

Host:

There's a lot of people did that, I think.

Mike:

Yeah.

Host:

Even that one thing.

Host:

Are you from this area?

Host:

Mansfield?

Mike:

I'm originally from Arizona, but then I've transplanted a few times.

Mike:

I went to.

Mike:

I went to like high school in Wayne County.

Mike:

Oh yeah?

Host:

I like Orville Speedway out Dwayne County Speedway.

Mike:

Oh, okay.

Mike:

Yeah, yeah, I've been there once I went to Norway.

Mike:

Norway?

Mike:

Yeah.

Mike:

Did you do.

Host:

Yeah.

Host:

Well, I know of Norway.

Host:

They're a pretty good football program.

Host:

We're kind of into football here.

Host:

Being a little tiny school.

Host:

It's really all we got going on in the community.

Host:

But.

Host:

But we had a trainer for a while and I think he was.

Host:

I have to ask Tommy.

Host:

I think he was training Rick.

Host:

There was a tall guy named Rick.

Host:

I don't know if.

Host:

Were you at all involved with football or anything or.

Mike:

No.

Host:

Okay.

Host:

You were in band, Mike.

Host:

No, I'm kidding.

Mike:

I was.

Mike:

I was.

Mike:

I was working at a.

Mike:

The grocery store to.

Mike:

To pay for college.

Host:

Okay.

Host:

Well, anyway, we got way off, but Rocky's, it was cool.

Host:

You ever see that restaurant in Mansfield?

Host:

Yeah.

Host:

Cuz that, that, that Covid Closed them down.

Host:

We used to love going there.

Host:

Yeah, that was a dude from that band.

Host:

Was that famous 60s band.

Host:

You know what I'm talking about, Reagan?

Host:

Some kind of, like, bubblegum music thing or something.

Host:

I can't.

Host:

Anyway, sorry, Mike.

Host:

You were telling us I'm interrupting you.

Mike:

No, I.

Host:

Part of the show.

Host:

I do this.

Mike:

No, you're good.

Mike:

So I.

Mike:

I just.

Mike:

That place sat empty for like a year, and I just told my wife.

Mike:

I'm like, you know, it's like that scene in Dumb and Dumber.

Mike:

You remember, like, the Swedish bikini model.

Mike:

Bus is, like, driving down the road.

Mike:

They stop, and they're like, do you know where we could find a couple guys to us massages?

Mike:

And they're like, you're in luck.

Mike:

There's a town right down there.

Mike:

And then the.

Mike:

And the girl looks at them all funny, and then the bus pulls away.

Mike:

And, like, you know, he looks at the other guy.

Mike:

He's like, man, those guys are gonna be really lucky, you know?

Mike:

So I told my wife.

Mike:

I'm like, man, somebody's gonna make a lot of money on that place because it's already got the build out done and everything.

Mike:

And that place didn't close down because it wasn't profitable.

Mike:

It's because of COVID I'm like, somebody can just open that right back up as either Menchies or some other franchise or independent.

Mike:

I kept saying that, and then after a few months, I'm like, that guy should be me.

Host:

Like, you actually stopped the bus.

Host:

Yeah.

Mike:

Light bulb.

Host:

Yeah.

Mike:

Yeah.

Mike:

So that's cool.

Host:

That's it.

Host:

So that's all.

Host:

I mean, it wasn't like you had any.

Host:

It was just that location kind of caught something, caught your eye there.

Host:

You got the idea, and boom.

Mike:

Yeah.

Mike:

It wasn't like you were in Frozen.

Host:

Yo.

Host:

Did you like Menchis before or anything?

Host:

Or was it something.

Mike:

My kids loved it.

Mike:

Oh, yeah.

Mike:

I've got.

Mike:

I've got.

Mike:

Got.

Host:

Sorry.

Mike:

I've got two.

Mike:

Two children.

Mike:

Two stepchildren.

Mike:

So we have four kids all together in a blended family.

Mike:

And it's like they.

Mike:

They loved menchees.

Mike:

They love CC's, which is gone too.

Host:

Yeah, yeah, that was perfect.

Host:

And yeah, cc's, Amit.

Mike:

Yeah, yeah.

Host:

I remember going both of those.

Mike:

But the kids loved it.

Mike:

And I'm like, you know, geez, kids love this, but they're selling smiles.

Mike:

I mean, they not love it.

Host:

Yeah, smiles and sunshine.

Host:

I mean, there's nothing better than that.

Host:

That's got to be fun.

Host:

So if you had people come in that like, so how long was it closed?

Host:

Like 4 years?

Host:

3?

Mike:

It was closed for a year and, and a couple months, I think.

Host:

Oh, it was only closed for like a little over a year.

Mike:

Yeah.

Host:

Oh, okay.

Host:

And how long you been open there now?

Mike:

Over three years.

Host:

Okay.

Host:

Did you have a lot of, like, a lot of people come in saying, oh, thank God, you guys.

Host:

Like, they barely mentions people.

Host:

And so how, what kind of feedback have you got with your.

Host:

That they, Is it different?

Host:

Like, are they saying it's better, the same different, or, you know, what.

Host:

Do you notice the transition?

Host:

Out of curiosity?

Mike:

You know, it's, it's, you could, you.

Host:

Could lie if you want.

Mike:

No, it's all been positive.

Mike:

Really.

Mike:

I mean, it really has.

Mike:

It's been, it would be a bummer.

Host:

If you said no.

Mike:

Yeah, it's all been terrible.

Mike:

They say Menchies was so much better.

Mike:

No, like, like, one thing I did when we opened, it was like, I looked at the Google reviews that Menchies was getting, and towards the end they weren't real great.

Mike:

Yeah.

Mike:

I'm not going to go too deep into why that was, but I, I, I think that people have appreciated that.

Mike:

We, you know, we try to run, you know, a clean store.

Mike:

We try to keep it very clean, which is important anywhere you go.

Mike:

Like, there's no bigger turnoff for me when I go to eat somewhere and it's like, dirty.

Host:

Yeah, right.

Mike:

Oh, for sure.

Mike:

But there were a lot of people and still we have a lot of people that come in and they're like, oh, I'm so glad that you reopened this place, you know.

Host:

Yeah.

Mike:

Because they, they like frozen yogurt better than ice cream.

Mike:

Or there's, there's really nothing over on that side of town, you know.

Host:

Oh, I saw.

Host:

It was a real hot draw.

Host:

I mean, that's.

Host:

I remember.

Host:

Yeah.

Host:

So I think you guys.

Host:

Yeah.

Host:

I would have to agree with you, even though, so I didn't.

Host:

So you.

Host:

All the equipment, everything's still there.

Host:

It's the same.

Mike:

Oh, no, no.

Host:

Okay.

Mike:

No, that was all sold off.

Mike:

I actually bought our equipment from an auction in Canada.

Mike:

I had to get like an import permit.

Host:

Wow.

Host:

Really?

Mike:

It was a, that's a whole other story, but.

Mike:

Yeah.

Mike:

Yeah.

Mike:

But the build out, you know, like, of the store was done and then I did renovation myself.

Host:

So the actual, like, machines and stuff that make the, that you had to buy.

Mike:

Yeah.

Host:

Okay.

Mike:

They'd cut everything off at the pipes too, like the sinks and everything.

Mike:

It was, it was pretty awful.

Host:

Now, so you were, you were full time Principal.

Host:

When you did this?

Mike:

Yeah.

Host:

And.

Host:

And then did you.

Host:

Are you still being a principal or.

Mike:

No, no, I.

Mike:

I left education completely.

Mike:

And now you, like, burn the boats.

Mike:

Yeah.

Mike:

And that's a.

Mike:

That's a book, isn't it?

Host:

Yeah.

Host:

Well, I know some.

Host:

Some mission or.

Host:

I don't know, was a Viking thing or.

Host:

Right.

Host:

When they go to attack, like, we're burning boats, man.

Host:

We ain't going back.

Host:

So, like, you know, you're like, motivator.

Mike:

You got to be successful.

Mike:

There's no if.

Mike:

There's no escape.

Mike:

Right?

Mike:

Yeah, I do that.

Mike:

And I do.

Mike:

I do like, real estate rehab and rentals, so.

Host:

Oh, okay.

Mike:

And then Jeff could probably tell you, like, I'm constantly looking for something else.

Mike:

I tried to get him to do, like, claw machine.

Host:

Oh.

Mike:

And stuff with me, so that's cool.

Mike:

I'm always looking.

Mike:

If.

Mike:

If you can think of a business, I've probably thought about doing it.

Host:

So you're one of the guys.

Host:

Like, we've done these trade shows, like, to open your own business.

Host:

Ever gone to those?

Mike:

No, I haven't.

Mike:

No.

Host:

Oh, you would love it.

Host:

Yeah, I probably should, because I got all kinds of.

Host:

You go, like, we'll set up a booth there, you know, and it hasn't been real successful for us, to be honest with you, but I think we dig it.

Host:

I think we got one person, one time.

Host:

But.

Host:

But when I walk around, I'm always amazed at the odd.

Host:

There's stuff you wouldn't even think.

Host:

Like you're saying, you know, you might go in there and be like, I might check that out.

Host:

Like some weird coffee thing or they got different.

Host:

I don't.

Host:

This stuff that I never even heard of there.

Mike:

I'm so susceptible to sales.

Mike:

I'd leave starting 10 businesses, though, like, I.

Mike:

My whole life savings would be gone.

Host:

In fact, I think we were next to a booth last time, and they made some kind of healthy dog food, which doesn't seem uncommon now.

Host:

You see a lot of that out there.

Host:

I think dogs are big.

Host:

Any dogs?

Mike:

Did you sample it?

Host:

No, no, no, no.

Host:

There's a whole story there, but I can't say it on there.

Host:

Okay.

Host:

Anyway.

Host:

Anyway, I'll tell you afterwards.

Host:

So.

Host:

All right.

Host:

So now you've had.

Host:

So.

Host:

Because I.

Host:

I always feel like, at least.

Host:

Especially in our business, the franchisees, it takes.

Host:

I always tell them it's really three to four years before you seem to hit your stride.

Host:

At least with what we do.

Host:

Have you.

Host:

You said it's been what now?

Host:

Three.

Mike:

Three years.

Mike:

Yeah.

Host:

Are you Kind of feel like, yeah.

Host:

What's.

Host:

Tell us the three years that was right away, was there some moments you're like, oh, my gosh, what did I.

Host:

This wasn't what I thought.

Host:

Or, you know, are you.

Host:

And it gives kind of that vibe.

Mike:

I.

Mike:

I think.

Mike:

Because I think in the industry, what they call this is a.

Mike:

A second generation store or second generation business, because we occupied that space, you know, like that was already occupied for that purpose, that we got the majority of that business that already existed before.

Mike:

And because it hadn't been there for a year, people were eager to.

Mike:

Wow.

Host:

So it's exactly what you.

Host:

Basically what you thought, what brought you there then.

Mike:

Yeah.

Mike:

So, like, on opening day, you know, I had those jitters of like, oh, my gosh, what if.

Mike:

You know, it's like, if you build it, they will come, right?

Mike:

Like Costner and Kevin Costner.

Mike:

Right?

Mike:

Field of Dreams, they will come.

Mike:

And I'm like, what if they don't?

Mike:

Right?

Mike:

So.

Mike:

So I had like Bandit signs out in the yard out front there by the parking lot.

Mike:

I'm like, what if we build it and nobody comes?

Mike:

And it was like, crazy busy.

Mike:

s like Labor Day, I think, of:

Host:

Okay.

Mike:

It was so busy and it was like, I didn't realize we were going to have like a honeymoon period, though.

Mike:

Right.

Host:

Like, oh, so I know what you mean.

Mike:

You know, when all of these restaurant businesses open.

Mike:

Right.

Mike:

Everybody wants to try that right away.

Mike:

And.

Mike:

And then it slowed down a little bit right after that, and I was kind of prepared for that.

Mike:

And then I wasn't.

Mike:

You know, it kind of plateaued a little bit this the.

Mike:

The second two years.

Mike:

And I had tried some different forms of advertisement.

Mike:

My most consistent has been with Jeff and Town Money Saver, actually, which I'm guessing we'll get to at some point.

Mike:

Yeah, that's.

Host:

But the only reason we got you.

Mike:

And then I.

Mike:

I've, like, I've like doubled down on some.

Mike:

Some advertising because I think that that's a very important piece.

Mike:

So the thing that I've settled into is probably understanding the formula that I need to follow to grow the business instead of just kind of like relying on, oh, we're doing a good job.

Mike:

People are just going to keep coming.

Host:

Yeah.

Host:

Well, me and Reagan.

Host:

Sorry.

Host:

Go do some edits here.

Host:

I have a.

Host:

Coughing like crazy.

Host:

It's one funny.

Host:

We're out in the field selling to that point.

Host:

I mean, I've gone to places, they're like, oh, everybody knows we're here.

Host:

You know, we don't need to get out there.

Host:

I'm like, everybody knows Coca Cola is there.

Host:

And they spend gazillions on marketing and advertising.

Host:

Everyone knows McDonald's is there.

Host:

And I had, when we started the company, a quick story was there's a little carpet store.

Host:

She'd been there like 20.

Host:

And I think she was just being nice to me because she knew I would get coffee and see her in the little coffee shop.

Host:

Something Grafton, Ohio.

Host:

And, oh, everybody knows us.

Host:

But, you know, here, I'll help you out.

Host:

Here's an ad or whatever.

Host:

Oh, my gosh, she got blown away.

Host:

She, like did like three or four homes.

Host:

She goes, I can't believe people come in here, didn't even know I was here, you know, and she, she just had perception.

Host:

Everybody.

Host:

So I know, I think we all, we're so in our own place.

Host:

And then you don't realize.

Host:

I mean, I don't know if you've ever been involved.

Host:

Like, I'll be involved with like, fundraising events or things with the school or anything.

Host:

And they're like, oh, we sent everybody.

Host:

The thing, I don't know why, it's like people don't read every single thing they see.

Host:

You know what I mean?

Host:

Like, you have to do more marketing to really get the message out.

Host:

What other marketing I don't want to get.

Host:

I don't want to make Tom money.

Host:

Well, it's the best thing.

Host:

Town Money Saver.

Mike:

The, the best, most consistent is Town Money Saver.

Host:

Okay, thanks, Mike.

Host:

All right.

Host:

No, anyway, so we're.

Host:

That's kind of what we're hoping so.

Host:

Yeah, it's like your yogurt was good.

Host:

I was hoping over menchies.

Host:

What other advertising are you doing?

Host:

That's you.

Host:

Do you like or don't like or what?

Mike:

Okay, I'll tell you about the failed forms of advertising.

Host:

Oh, we'd like to hear that.

Mike:

Okay.

Mike:

And, and, and I'm not bashing these forms because maybe they haven't worked just for me.

Mike:

One, like, I, I owned a pressure washing business in the past when I was an educator because I had, you know, summers off when I was a teacher.

Mike:

I didn't have summers off really when I was a principal.

Mike:

Like, that summer window that you get off is really shrunken down.

Host:

So you did have some business.

Host:

So you, you had your own business.

Mike:

Okay, so I did have some sales in that I would go and like, give the free estimate and really a free estimates.

Mike:

An opportunity to be like, hey, what I hear you saying is you're wanting to have you Know, a deck that has no splinters and your house looks, you know, that kind of thing.

Mike:

So you're doing some sales.

Mike:

But I did like direct mailings, which can be fantastic if you don't have an outdated mailing list.

Mike:

So like 15 of my postcards that I sent out got sent back to me, you know, return to sender.

Mike:

Yeah, so.

Mike:

So that.

Mike:

That what?

Mike:

Didn't work as well as I thought it would, but it did work.

Mike:

I mean, I got return on it, but it wasn't as good as I thought.

Mike:

I did like a home and garden show there, you know, so like a trade show that would.

Mike:

That was good anytime I could get face to face with people and talk to them.

Mike:

So that was kind of.

Host:

That's what.

Host:

The pressure washing business.

Mike:

Yeah, that pressure washing business.

Mike:

Yeah, Home and garden show for the frozen yogurt probably that might work.

Host:

A little cart or something.

Host:

Maybe we sell smiles.

Mike:

But the.

Mike:

I did.

Mike:

I did billboards locally with one of the, you know, two.

Mike:

Two major local billboard companies.

Mike:

And I did like, you know, the print one and then I did the.

Mike:

The digital one that changes every five, ten seconds or whatever.

Mike:

And that one was like a thousand dollars.

Mike:

Wow.

Mike:

For a month.

Mike:

Yeah.

Mike:

Yeah.

Mike:

And you're only.

Mike:

I'm only getting displayed, you know, once a minute or something like that.

Mike:

You know, five seconds.

Host:

As a.

Host:

As a.

Host:

I guess I don't know what the word would be.

Host:

I'll say consumer, pedestrian, driver, someone driving down the highway.

Host:

I mean, I think they're cool.

Host:

I like the digital ones.

Host:

But to your point, it's weird.

Host:

There's been times when, like, I'll catch the very end of something and I think, oh.

Host:

And then I'm like, buy it.

Host:

And I'm like, dang it.

Host:

I don't even know what that was.

Host:

That.

Host:

Always wondered how.

Host:

What the analytics are on that, so to speak.

Mike:

I.

Mike:

And I think it's the long game.

Mike:

I think that for companies that can have multiple billboards or.

Mike:

Or companies that are already have that like national recognition or.

Mike:

Or whatever.

Mike:

I mean, I.

Mike:

I didn't think it was a good fit for me because I didn't see a change, a measurable change in our sales, which is so hard, which is so hard to measure.

Mike:

Like, that's one thing I like with Town Money Saver.

Mike:

Like, because ours is mostly like, this month is not coupon.

Mike:

Actually, it is a coupon, but it's like our trick or treat thing.

Mike:

But usually we have like a buy one, get one half off, you know, type.

Mike:

Yeah, I can.

Mike:

I can Literally count how many coupons come back in.

Mike:

Right.

Host:

That's what.

Host:

From day one, when I started selling it, you know, it was like.

Host:

Because in fact we just yesterday.

Host:

Do you know the Hickory Vinery wine or Hickory wines binary place?

Mike:

No, I've heard of it, but I don't.

Host:

Hickory Vines.

Host:

Yeah.

Host:

Oh, my gosh.

Host:

Rich is going to slap me in the face.

Host:

I just had him in here yesterday anymore.

Host:

He's butchering his name.

Host:

He's.

Host:

We did his website.

Mike:

Okay.

Host:

Digital.

Host:

So he hasn't done any print with us yet.

Host:

I think he's going to.

Host:

But he did billboards.

Host:

He's kind of saying the same thing.

Host:

He goes.

Host:

Because he'll ask people.

Host:

And he finally started asking people, have you seen my billboard?

Host:

He said no one had seen them.

Host:

And he said.

Host:

Then after a while someone said, oh, I did see it.

Host:

Almost like.

Host:

Because he had mentioned it now they were looking or something.

Host:

But we talked about the tangibility and.

Host:

And because he.

Host:

One of the things that I always said from a salesperson was hard.

Host:

And this was back now it's with Facebook.

Host:

I see it.

Host:

But back in the day it was newspaper.

Host:

Right.

Host:

Like I'd walk in and.

Host:

And we coach people.

Host:

I'm sure.

Host:

Hopefully Jeff did on return on investment formulas.

Host:

Like, what do we need to do to.

Host:

I always call it zero cost advertising.

Host:

Like at least get you where we're covering your costs.

Host:

And now how can we be the best, you know, out there?

Host:

So there'd be people doing newspapers, doing ours.

Host:

And maybe the response wasn't quite what we were hoping, you know, or was or wasn't covering costs.

Host:

Exactly.

Host:

And it might have been the first one or two or whatever.

Host:

And they don't always work either.

Host:

So I'm not saying there's the ones that don't, but there'd be times they'd say, yeah, I think I'm gonna hold off, you know, like, okay, well what's.

Host:

What's working for you?

Host:

Waiting.

Host:

Well, I'm do the news.

Host:

I'm just going to keep doing the newspaper.

Host:

I'm like, oh, okay, well, how's that?

Host:

I'm just trying to compare results.

Host:

I don't know, but I know it's working.

Host:

I'm like, what?

Host:

Well, how do you.

Host:

So it's just your perception that it's working.

Host:

You don't really know that it's working.

Host:

And that was one of the things that I loved about this.

Host:

This format.

Host:

You know, when I started selling, before we started tell Money Saver was, yeah, it was so tangible.

Host:

And then it doesn't even count the other.

Host:

You know, the.

Host:

The ancillary response that's going.

Host:

You know, people might see it, respond.

Host:

We have people that have said, hey, I had someone bring the thing in.

Host:

Never even used a coupon, you know, so I'm sure you have stuff like that.

Host:

But.

Host:

And that's one of the things Rich was talking about was some of the marketing that he was doing and how, you know, he.

Host:

He was basically, you know, I guess I'll say it.

Host:

Simpler way of saying it.

Host:

The branding, you know, like, hey, it's.

Host:

It's out there.

Host:

I know it's getting seen.

Host:

And it's like, yeah, but how do you.

Host:

You know, here we live in a world obsessed with analytics, and there's like zero analytics to this, right?

Host:

So you.

Host:

You don't.

Host:

You're just like, well, I think people.

Host:

So I.

Host:

I don't.

Host:

That's what's always.

Host:

I would think, from your perspective.

Host:

And I.

Host:

And I'm an advertiser, right?

Host:

Like, we've had to advertise for franchises is.

Host:

I've spent tens of thousands of dollars.

Host:

And I.

Host:

I'm confused.

Host:

You know, I'm like, I don't know what.

Host:

You know, because you don't know.

Host:

You run an ad.

Host:

Well, spe.

Host:

Okay, a coupon.

Host:

That's what makes it so easy, right?

Host:

You're doing a coupon.

Host:

You could.

Host:

And I've literally seen.

Host:

Let me ask you this.

Host:

Have you ever done, like, a crappy offer and a good, like, one that didn't hit and one that did, or have you always run pretty much the same offer?

Mike:

We run pretty similar offers, I would say.

Mike:

I.

Mike:

I think anytime that they're getting something where it's buy two, get one free, buy one, get one free.

Mike:

Anytime that it's got the word free in it, though, I think that those.

Mike:

Those have done better than, like, a percentage off or.

Mike:

Oh, yeah, you know, if I do a 20 off, I don't.

Mike:

It doesn't.

Mike:

Doesn't have the call to action that a.

Mike:

A free does.

Mike:

You know, like, there's something in the brain that's like, free.

Host:

Well, and that's, you know.

Host:

And that's what I was talking to Rich yesterday too.

Host:

I.

Host:

I would have to believe it's another Categories like Billboard.

Host:

Like, we know what works in here, right?

Host:

We always say timing, market, offer.

Host:

Right.

Host:

Time.

Host:

Right.

Host:

Market.

Host:

Right.

Host:

Right now, in your case is in seasonality to yogurt or.

Mike:

Oh, yeah.

Host:

Okay.

Host:

Summer's busy.

Mike:

Bigger Spring is actually the busiest.

Host:

Really?

Mike:

Yeah.

Mike:

I think that anticipation of the warm for the.

Host:

Oh, the sunshine and the smiles.

Host:

Yeah.

Host:

You're getting, like, hey, getting out of the winter.

Mike:

Summer's second best.

Mike:

And then it kind of goes.

Mike:

It slowly declines all the way up through about February.

Mike:

February is, like, the.

Mike:

The slowest.

Host:

Yeah.

Mike:

March is one of the busiest, if it's.

Mike:

If it's warm at all.

Host:

Okay.

Host:

You think maybe you could do popcorn gifts or something in the Christmas or something?

Host:

I don't know.

Host:

But anyway, the.

Host:

I just went blank.

Host:

Rich.

Host:

I'm getting old.

Host:

Look, I called you Rhett, was it?

Host:

All right, Reagan, start this over.

Host:

No, anyway, I've.

Mike:

I get that all the time.

Mike:

Everybody.

Host:

Do they call you Rich?

Host:

Yeah.

Host:

Yeah.

Host:

You look like.

Host:

You look kind of like.

Mike:

I get that.

Mike:

Yeah.

Host:

Yeah.

Host:

Okay.

Host:

But, you know, the point is that there's.

Host:

Because we can run ads that fail, you know, so there is a formula, so to speak.

Host:

Right.

Host:

And that's our job to know that for the customer.

Host:

Right.

Host:

For the advertiser.

Host:

Like you.

Host:

So obviously Jeff coached you on that, or did he coach, or did you just know that, like, to do buy two, get one free or whatever?

Host:

Was that something that he was able to.

Mike:

He made that suggestion.

Mike:

Okay, buy two, get one free.

Mike:

Like, I've.

Mike:

I probably have crazy, outlandish ideas.

Mike:

You're like, he.

Mike:

He helps keep me grounded, you know.

Host:

Okay, give us one of your crazy.

Mike:

Well, this is one of them.

Mike:

I just said.

Mike:

I said, hey, you know, I said, I want to.

Mike:

He.

Mike:

I think he sent me over, like, the, you know, our regular sun logo, you know, that I think we, last year ran the regular sun look.

Mike:

He has one, like, for different holidays.

Mike:

Right.

Mike:

So I think he was a regular sun logo, might have had, like, bat ears or something like that for Halloween, you know, and that was our normal coupons that we have, which I'm sure that there's some people that kind of are expecting those coupons, and then they saw this, and they're like, what the heck?

Mike:

Where's.

Mike:

Where's the buy to get one free?

Mike:

You know, But I'm like, I want to do something crazy.

Mike:

I want to run an event for, you know, Halloween, and I think I'm going to do that for, like, Christmas, too, you know?

Host:

Yeah.

Mike:

But I wanted something that.

Mike:

Because we are on the front page.

Mike:

I wanted something that.

Mike:

When they see that, you know that.

Mike:

Because the first thing that they see when they pull that out of their mailbox, bring that in the house.

Mike:

I wanted something that really.

Host:

Yeah.

Mike:

Catches their eye and looks different from what I didn't want ours to look the Same as it always does, I guess.

Host:

Yeah, no, that's cool.

Host:

And I think it's during the holidays especially.

Host:

I mean, you can play when the Halloween thing.

Host:

Yeah, I think people are going to be more attracted to look at that.

Host:

And.

Host:

And actually it's funny because none of these other ones have.

Host:

Are even capitalizing on the holiday in this particular one.

Host:

Well, there's one right there, so.

Host:

Yeah, I think it's cool.

Host:

I mean, it looks.

Host:

Yeah.

Host:

That artwork.

Host:

Was that just clip art or something?

Host:

Because that's pretty nice art to.

Host:

Because you got yogurt in there and the sun in there.

Host:

Who did.

Host:

How'd you get that artwork?

Mike:

I actually worked with Jeff on that.

Mike:

I'm like, here's an idea of what I want to do.

Mike:

I said.

Mike:

And I.

Mike:

I actually did that.

Mike:

The art.

Host:

You did it?

Mike:

Yeah, I did.

Host:

With.

Mike:

I mean, he.

Mike:

He did some tweaks on it.

Mike:

I did.

Mike:

I just.

Mike:

I used AI.

Host:

Yeah.

Host:

Yeah, that's cool.

Mike:

It.

Mike:

You know, it took me generating like a couple hundred of them to get one that I like.

Mike:

You know, you got to be super descriptive and everything.

Mike:

But, yeah, it gave me some.

Mike:

That looked, you know, a little bit satanic before I got to one that.

Mike:

That I thought would be appropriate and kind of what I wanted.

Host:

And, you know, crazy story.

Host:

I can't think that's part of why we do the podcast, I guess.

Host:

Crazy stories.

Host:

We literally had.

Host:

I had a dry cleaner years and this one with like two color, right?

Host:

And we had a farm store in there, and there's a little farmer with a pitchfork thing, right?

Host:

And then there was a dry cleaner ad and it had a girl with whatever kind of shirts with.

Host:

But they just.

Host:

Their shoulders are out or whatever, you know.

Host:

And this is just line clip art, right?

Host:

Two color, like black and white almost.

Host:

And somehow in the graphics, something got messed around and the.

Host:

The little guy showed up on the girl's shoulder.

Host:

Like, it was just like a fluke thing, right?

Mike:

They.

Host:

There was like this really hardcore Christian group protesting this dry cleaner because of that.

Host:

Like, it was some satanic message or something.

Host:

I was like, what?

Host:

Like, that was a completely accident.

Host:

And there was even people.

Host:

You'd show them.

Host:

You're like, I don't see the connection.

Host:

But it was.

Host:

It was a short.

Host:

But what happened was really bad for us was the guy was having a really rough time about other stuff, and it really pissed him off.

Host:

Like, I mean, he was upset and we were having to do all this stuff.

Host:

And honestly, it was.

Host:

Now I took public relation classes in college and I'm like, this.

Host:

This.

Host:

This does go away.

Host:

This is goofy.

Host:

This ain't like, you know, something to really need to react to, but we had to.

Host:

But anyway, yeah, I could see where you have to want.

Host:

You have to be sensitive nowadays, though, it's maybe a little more common, too.

Host:

I don't know.

Host:

Back then you didn't have any of that.

Host:

Now, you know, they have.

Host:

Don't they have, like, trade shows and stuff for those people or something like that?

Host:

Probably, yeah, but you know, you know what I'm talking about.

Host:

Reagan trade shows.

Host:

Yeah.

Host:

For the devily kind of people, probably.

Host:

Reagan's like, I'm not saying nothing.

Host:

All right.

Host:

Anyway, got us off track.

Host:

Geez, Mike, can you stand.

Host:

Stay on the topic, please.

Mike:

But I don't use.

Mike:

I don't usually do my own art.

Mike:

I was just trying to send a concept over, but it actually, it.

Mike:

It generated one that was so perfect.

Host:

That is cool.

Host:

I know, because the more I looked at it.

Host:

Wait a minute.

Host:

That is yogurt and the sun and the Halloween.

Host:

So, yeah, that had to be something.

Host:

Are you seeing AI?

Host:

Because I know we.

Host:

I know we're playing with it in different ways, and I guess it's all.

Host:

Someone told me AI is not going to replace people, but people that know how to use AI are going to replace people.

Mike:

Yeah, it's a tool.

Mike:

I mean, that's.

Mike:

That's what it is.

Mike:

I mean, I think it's like anything.

Mike:

You know, there's a.

Mike:

I think there's a lot of fear of.

Mike:

Of it, and rightly so, because of the things that it.

Mike:

The things that it.

Mike:

It can do that I'm sure that they're going to end up being regulated.

Mike:

Right.

Mike:

Like.

Mike:

Yeah, like, it could probably generate a podcast.

Mike:

Right.

Mike:

And it can.

Mike:

It can make you say things that you're not saying.

Host:

Right.

Host:

I say stuff I don't even know I'm saying.

Mike:

You know, I think.

Mike:

I think, you know, not to get political, but I think there were.

Mike:

AI generated phone calls or something.

Mike:

Political ads that were being sent to people.

Mike:

Yeah, yeah, something like that.

Mike:

I think that's going to get worse, unfortunately.

Mike:

And so I'm sure there's regulation on the way with that kind of stuff.

Mike:

But I think as far as, like, art is concerned, like, I think it's just a tool that, you know.

Host:

Yeah.

Mike:

That artist in the hands of artists, it's going to be, you know.

Host:

Well, we find it in copywriting too, so to speak.

Host:

Right.

Host:

It seems like I've even done it for talks.

Host:

I've done or whatever where just.

Host:

I don't know about you, but if you've ever had to write like a speech or something or, you know, you're writing some content and I can get the main points.

Host:

It's always those transitions that are just because I'm not an English major, you know, and I start worrying about my grammar and all that.

Host:

That's what AI seems fun.

Host:

Like I can plug all the stuff in.

Host:

Here's what I got to say.

Host:

Can you put this in a, you know, format?

Host:

And then it's like, oh man, that's so much better than the way I was thinking, like chat GPT or something.

Host:

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Host:

I do a.

Host:

There's a non profit thing and I'll do like a trivia thing.

Host:

So I'm like, I used to sit there and have to search all these different trivia, you know, and I go to websites, they'd have trivia.

Host:

Now I just type in, you know, give me 50 trivia questions in regards to whatever and boom, they're right there.

Host:

I don't even used to have to write them on the thing.

Host:

And so I'm like, that's pretty handy.

Host:

I love that.

Host:

So what.

Host:

What other.

Host:

So you told.

Host:

So the billboards didn't really work, right?

Host:

That's kind of what you're saying that you didn't or at least, at least from what you can tell.

Host:

And again, I, I'm big on that too.

Host:

I don't want to like, I.

Host:

I look at billboards when I drive around.

Host:

I'm not saying they don't work, you know, but I don't know how they work, you know, so I'm assuming, like you said, it becomes familiar and when it becomes familiar, more likely to react, blah, blah, blah.

Host:

What, what did you.

Host:

Have you done something else besides tell money server that has worked that you like or.

Mike:

I did with the.

Mike:

Not with the frozen yogurt business.

Mike:

With the.

Mike:

When I had the pressure washing business, I did radio ads that worked okay.

Host:

But I was that in a small.

Host:

What kind of size market was that over in Norway?

Mike:

That was in the Worcester area.

Host:

Okay.

Host:

Yeah, yeah.

Host:

So that's a.

Host:

You're not like in the.

Host:

See, I, I was.

Host:

That's what.

Host:

I grew up more in the Cleveland area.

Host:

Like a bigger.

Host:

I'm in Arizona.

Host:

Were you in a bigger area?

Host:

Like, were you by Phoenix or something?

Mike:

Or Tucson.

Host:

Oh, okay.

Mike:

Yeah.

Host:

How.

Host:

What would you compare to?

Host:

Believe it or not, we used to do a Tucson mailer.

Host:

I don't know, I was never there, but I know they had the big cool cactuses.

Host:

Right, Whatever.

Host:

Those things.

Mike:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Host:

But what would Tucson become like around here?

Host:

Like with Akron or Columbus or.

Host:

How big is it?

Mike:

I don't.

Mike:

No, bigger than that.

Mike:

I'd say somewhere between the size of Akron and Cleveland, probably.

Host:

Okay, so that'd be a big.

Host:

I mean, well, so you.

Host:

But you didn't do anything out there that.

Host:

I guess.

Mike:

No, I was a kid.

Mike:

I still have my dad and my brother and I have family out there still.

Host:

Oh, okay.

Mike:

I was a kid when I lived out there.

Host:

Are they having a lot of problem with the border?

Mike:

I.

Mike:

Not that I know of.

Mike:

I mean, I'm sure that there's.

Mike:

I'm sure that there are issues with the border, but.

Mike:

Yeah, not that are direct.

Host:

Tucson's more south, right?

Host:

It's.

Mike:

Yeah.

Mike:

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mike:

They live.

Mike:

I mean, they.

Mike:

They live probably, I don't know, 50 to 70 miles from the border.

Mike:

So it's not real.

Host:

Wow.

Host:

Real close.

Host:

Yeah.

Mike:

Yeah.

Host:

But they're exaggerating on tv.

Host:

I thought it was a big.

Mike:

No, I don't know.

Mike:

I think it's.

Mike:

Well, no, I think there's a little bit of both.

Host:

I'm just messing around.

Host:

But so.

Host:

Because.

Host:

Well, one impression I have is when you're in a bigger market.

Host:

So like, Tucson, Cleveland, I mean, the rate, it would be almost cost prohibitive, I'm guessing, to do radio, tv, stuff like that.

Host:

Whereas.

Host:

Oh, yeah, Worcester, I think.

Host:

Right.

Host:

You're like Mansfield.

Host:

They're a lot more like.

Host:

What would.

Host:

Do you mind me asking what you have to pay for a radio ad in Worcester?

Mike:

I.

Mike:

I don't remember.

Mike:

I think it was like 250, $300 for.

Mike:

For like a week with, you know, maybe 10 spots a day or something.

Host:

Yeah.

Host:

I mean, Cleveland, that'd be thousands.

Host:

I would.

Mike:

Right.

Host:

Yeah.

Mike:

Yeah.

Mike:

So it was.

Mike:

I mean, it was.

Mike:

It was pretty good.

Mike:

And then I.

Mike:

I now I use.

Mike:

I use social media.

Host:

Okay.

Mike:

So I.

Mike:

I run like Meta Business Suite, which is, you know, Facebook.

Host:

Oh, this is Reagan's sweet spot.

Host:

What?

Host:

Are you familiar with that?

Reagan:

Reagan with Meta Business Suite?

Host:

I hope so.

Reagan:

Never heard of it.

Reagan:

Don't.

Reagan:

No clue.

Mike:

He's like, I'm on it right now.

Host:

He was hired for that.

Host:

So, you know, he doesn't know it.

Host:

In trouble.

Host:

Kind of hired for that.

Host:

We.

Host:

We actually haven't do everything but that now.

Host:

But.

Host:

So, yeah, tell me how you use that, because that's a little more tar.

Host:

Right.

Host:

I mean, most people think of just posting organic posting or boosting.

Host:

Right.

Host:

But that gets A little more advanced, what you're doing.

Host:

Correct.

Host:

Like you can actually target demographically or something.

Host:

You're trying to.

Host:

So what do you.

Host:

Yeah, what do you.

Host:

How do you.

Host:

Yeah, how do you pick out a yogurt eater?

Mike:

Like, oh, man.

Mike:

Like, you know, there, there's.

Mike:

When I pick the demographics.

Mike:

Right.

Mike:

Like, I don't want to give away too many trade secrets.

Host:

Oh, well, I don't.

Mike:

Yeah, there's.

Host:

There's not two views on this.

Host:

And it's.

Host:

Your competitors.

Host:

Do you even have.

Host:

There's not even a competitor around, is there?

Host:

I mean, Dairy Queen in the summer.

Mike:

No, that even.

Mike:

Right.

Mike:

Dairy Queen.

Mike:

Oh, man.

Mike:

I could.

Mike:

No, there's not.

Mike:

I mean, there's not a direct competitor.

Mike:

There's a lot of indirect competitors that have overlap.

Mike:

Yeah.

Mike:

A lot.

Mike:

A lot of ice cream.

Host:

Like.

Host:

Or that.

Host:

Or right by is a cookie place.

Mike:

I.

Host:

Would someone.

Host:

Would I be sitting in my car and go, like, do I get a cookie or a yogurt?

Mike:

Right.

Mike:

I thought crumble was gonna.

Mike:

Really?

Host:

Yeah.

Mike:

And it actually helped us.

Host:

Really?

Mike:

Yeah.

Host:

It's like a sweet spot.

Mike:

Yeah.

Mike:

Yeah.

Host:

Right?

Mike:

Yeah, we're like a sweet spot.

Mike:

I like that.

Mike:

We're in the sweet spot.

Mike:

We're a destination.

Mike:

What else could be sugar?

Host:

You need one of those bunk cake places or something in there.

Mike:

Yeah, yeah.

Mike:

What are those?

Mike:

What's that called?

Mike:

My wife loves that.

Mike:

Oh, that, that bunt cake.

Host:

I can't remember the name either.

Host:

I mean, I know there's local ones, but then there's that chain.

Host:

There's a big one because some advertise with us.

Reagan:

Is it like nothing bunt cake?

Host:

Oh, that's nothing.

Mike:

Bunk cake.

Mike:

But I do want to say a little plug for bake my day in Ontario.

Mike:

They.

Mike:

They have fabulous cake.

Host:

All right.

Mike:

They don't specialize in just bunt cakes, but they have.

Mike:

They have great cupcakes.

Mike:

So.

Host:

Okay, cool.

Mike:

Local business.

Host:

So back to.

Host:

If you don't mind.

Host:

Because we don't want to.

Host:

Yeah.

Host:

We don't want to give away your trade secrets, but.

Host:

Yeah, I was just.

Host:

I was just thinking it's more curious, like, funny, like, how do you target a yo, you know?

Mike:

Yeah, yeah.

Host:

I mean, if you were selling high end roofs or something, that'd be easy.

Host:

But yogurt, how do you.

Host:

Yeah, I'm curious, like.

Mike:

Well, there's a Menchies demographics.

Host:

Really?

Mike:

So people who have in the past liked menchies, you know, they probably don't go back and they're like, oh, Menchie's left.

Mike:

I'm Gonna go in there.

Mike:

And unlike menchies, you know, or unfollow menchies.

Mike:

So anybody who has liked menchies, but also all of those businesses around the area there, like, I'm like, if they like Target, if they like Best Buy, if they like Meijer, they're people that shop in that area around Starbucks.

Mike:

Starbucks is our anchor store.

Mike:

So if they like Starbucks.

Mike:

Yeah, they're probably coming in that plaza a lot.

Mike:

So, I mean, because.

Host:

Yeah.

Host:

So frozen yogurt could appeal to anybody.

Host:

So it's really more the traffic.

Host:

Like, these are people that are there, you know, These are people that are coming to shop in that area.

Host:

Yeah, that's really what you're targeting.

Mike:

And they're probably people that aren't looking for, like, you know, the 99 cent ice cream cone.

Mike:

So, you know, so the.

Mike:

The demographics that I'm putting in are.

Mike:

Are places that are, you know, like Starbucks.

Mike:

Yeah.

Mike:

Instead of gas station coffee.

Mike:

Well, like, neither of those are wrong.

Mike:

You know, both of those are good for what they are now.

Host:

Like, cc's that used to be there, that might.

Host:

That'd be the 99 cent, right?

Mike:

Yeah.

Mike:

Yep.

Host:

Okay.

Host:

So Crumble, you guys could share customers back and forth?

Host:

Probably.

Mike:

Yeah, we.

Mike:

We had in the beginning, and I learned this when I worked at the grocery store.

Mike:

Okay.

Mike:

It kind of relates.

Mike:

I don't know, maybe I'm the only one that sees the connection here.

Mike:

When they had a training session where they.

Mike:

They showed us a video, they had, like, a think tank come in and they showed us a video, and they showed, like, somebody going into the produce section and they ate a grape.

Mike:

And they're like, what just happened here?

Mike:

And they, like, raised their hand.

Mike:

They're like.

Mike:

They just shoplifted, you know, and they're like, no, they just sampled your product, you know, and.

Mike:

And they're like, that's an opportunity to make money.

Mike:

If your product's good, then it's.

Mike:

And they're like, oh.

Mike:

They said, you should let people do that.

Mike:

And that made me think.

Mike:

And I'm like, oh.

Mike:

So we had Crumble come in, and right away I'd have employees texting or calling me in the evening that were working at the shop, and they'd say, hey, we don't know what to do.

Mike:

We've got these people.

Mike:

Because Crumble doesn't have a seating area.

Mike:

Starbucks also does not have a seating area.

Mike:

Right.

Mike:

So, yeah.

Mike:

Or restrooms.

Mike:

Everybody comes and uses our restrooms and Penn Station's restrooms, especially since Starbucks did the remodel.

Mike:

But so people would come over from Crumble, walk in, and, you know, like, I know I wouldn't be this bold, right?

Mike:

Like, I'll go into a place and use their restroom and not buy something like McDonald's or whatever on a trip, But.

Host:

Because you're like, you know, I've gone to McDonald's 100 times.

Mike:

Exactly.

Host:

I deserve a little bathroom time.

Mike:

Right.

Mike:

I'm 1 million of the 20 million people.

Mike:

But they'd come in with their, you know, the pink boxes.

Mike:

They sit at our table, and they eat cookies, and they just get up and leave, and they're like, what do we do?

Mike:

And I'm like, in the beginning, I was like, yeah, we should probably put something on the door that says for, you know, customers only.

Mike:

Have them.

Mike:

Like, what.

Mike:

What do I think?

Mike:

Every time that I walk into a business and I see on their door, bathrooms are for customers only.

Mike:

Or, you know, or tables are for paint.

Host:

What about the grenade?

Host:

You know, Aston Neck or whatever.

Host:

Complaint department, and they have the grenade right away you're like, oh, this is a friendly place.

Mike:

Right.

Mike:

Or over a.

Mike:

A paper shredder, you know, put your.

Mike:

So I'm like.

Mike:

I thought about it some more, and I'm like, let them.

Mike:

I'm like, let them.

Host:

Yeah.

Mike:

You know, these might be people who've never come into our store before.

Host:

Yeah.

Mike:

And they're gonna look around our store, you know, and they might buy something while they're there, or they might be like, you know what?

Mike:

I'm gonna try this place next time.

Host:

One thing, can't you.

Host:

Because I can't help but think.

Host:

I know at home I do this.

Host:

That's embarrassing to say, but I could see mixing them.

Host:

Right.

Host:

Like a little vanilla yogurt.

Host:

Put the crumble cookie in there.

Host:

Thing like, idea, you know, I could see.

Host:

I would want.

Host:

I'd take my cookie in there and then mix it in with the.

Host:

Because do you have all the same topping thing?

Host:

Like, all.

Host:

Don't you have a million little weird toppings and stuff?

Mike:

Exactly.

Mike:

One million.

Mike:

Yep.

Mike:

No.

Mike:

Yeah.

Mike:

We have a lot.

Mike:

We have, I don't know, 30 or 40.

Mike:

Maybe.

Host:

You could do a crumbles cookie topping.

Mike:

Yeah.

Mike:

Yeah.

Host:

Get crumbling up.

Mike:

That would.

Mike:

Extra combo cost me a fortune.

Mike:

But get their cookies and do them maybe the day old.

Mike:

See if they've got at the end of the day.

Host:

Yeah, that's.

Host:

That'll get him coming back.

Mike:

Yeah.

Mike:

Right.

Mike:

But I.

Mike:

I just thought, you know, this is.

Mike:

This might be an opportunity.

Mike:

I've got people coming in.

Host:

Yeah.

Mike:

You know, that I Don't normally probably.

Host:

Have you noticed it at all?

Host:

Doing anything yet or.

Host:

No.

Host:

Since you've been doing that?

Mike:

Yeah, I mean, well, our.

Mike:

They didn't.

Mike:

They didn't hurt us sales wise.

Mike:

So I don't know if it's because.

Host:

Of that or is that like people were sitting there.

Host:

Now your customers can't sit down because.

Mike:

They'Re there during our busiest time in the spring.

Mike:

That was more of the issue.

Mike:

That's not when they opened.

Mike:

I think they opened around this time last year and this is when we're slowing down.

Mike:

So we had table space.

Mike:

I mean, table space wasn't the issue.

Mike:

You know, I mean, it's.

Mike:

It's a little bit annoying because when we're emptying the trash, there's like pink boxes in there.

Mike:

Right.

Mike:

Like, you're like, ah.

Mike:

They're feeling.

Host:

Do you know the people from down there, are they cool?

Host:

The owner, is it a local owner or No?

Mike:

I think it's a local owner, but I haven't met them.

Mike:

Oh, and the employees, I think, Geez.

Mike:

I think they opened with like 70 employees.

Mike:

Wow.

Mike:

I don't think they have that many now, but I think they thought we need to have a lot of employees.

Host:

Yeah.

Mike:

Wow.

Mike:

I'm like, I have like seven.

Mike:

Seven employees.

Host:

It's a lot less labor costs for smiles and sunshine.

Mike:

Yeah.

Mike:

Self serves.

Mike:

That's.

Mike:

Yeah, that's what makes it work.

Host:

That is true.

Host:

I didn't think of that.

Mike:

Yeah, it's kind of like, you know, Tom Sawyer with the, you know, charging his friends to paint the fence for him.

Host:

You know, you got a lot of good, like, anecdote stuff from the movies and books and stuff.

Host:

You're like, that's all I've got.

Host:

Pop culture.

Mike:

I don't have anything else.

Host:

You.

Mike:

Yeah, I'm all surface.

Host:

See, my.

Host:

We.

Host:

I spent a lot of time watching Netflix series and stuff.

Host:

Like Rich, that was in there from the wine.

Host:

That guy reads 50 books a day or something.

Host:

I'm kidding.

Host:

But he does read, like a lot of books and stuff.

Host:

And he's quoting stuff.

Host:

You know, I feel intimidated.

Host:

I mean, he knows like formulas, business formulas and stuff.

Host:

And I'm like, I don't.

Host:

I don't have time, man.

Host:

I go, I'm.

Host:

You ever see an old man on Hulu?

Host:

Jeff Bridges is good.

Host:

Okay.

Mike:

I love Jeff Bridges.

Mike:

I'll have to check that out.

Host:

Oh, you gotta check it out.

Host:

It was violent.

Host:

It's pretty cool.

Host:

But so it's hard for me to remember.

Host:

And that's the problem.

Host:

Right.

Host:

You know, we all have our gifts, right?

Host:

We talked about that.

Host:

Like, you got certain gift you have.

Host:

Obviously you had the vision of seeing this place turn into what it is now, and other people were driving by there and for some reason didn't act on it.

Host:

Right.

Host:

And so you got to know your.

Host:

To me, you got to know your gifts and share your gifts.

Host:

You know, my gift is not memory or reading books or anything.

Host:

It's sitting around watching Netflix with my wife.

Host:

That's about it.

Mike:

But anyway, I don't believe that.

Host:

Oh, it's true.

Mike:

I think you've got.

Mike:

I think you've built some stuff.

Host:

Well, it's, it's.

Host:

But I don't even know how been the blessing of other people.

Host:

I'll tell you that.

Host:

I enjoy talking to people.

Host:

So that's.

Host:

That's what this.

Host:

That's when they said do podcasts, I'm like, of course I'll do this.

Host:

I just got to sit and talk to somebody.

Host:

I.

Host:

It's awesome.

Host:

So when.

Host:

Now do you notice at all when you're doing the ads?

Host:

Like one of.

Host:

Especially with an aggressive offer like that, which is aggressive thing that we've gotten in discussions about.

Host:

And the one guy, he wrote a book, one of our customers, he was real big, believe it or not, it was funny.

Host:

He's real big in sewing machines and vacuums or like there's a whole thing of.

Host:

I think they're kind of the same kind of retail.

Host:

So they'll have their conferences and stuff.

Host:

We actually were on a plane by accident to Vegas to a conference, and he was speaking.

Host:

He wrote a book.

Host:

And I wrote the forward to it, by the way.

Host:

So I was plugging in a little bit.

Host:

Yeah, I don't think anybody ever heard.

Host:

I don't even know the name of the book.

Host:

I forgot.

Host:

But my point is the whole story is that.

Host:

And I kind of like the analogy.

Host:

He talked about building his herd.

Host:

So like his success story, right, was that he would run an ad and he would get, you know, the response.

Host:

And he said he did.

Host:

He spent 900 and got 50,000 in re.

Host:

You know, it sounds like these crazy numbers, like what.

Host:

But he was looking at lifetime value.

Host:

So he had got to the point where when he got a new customer in, right?

Host:

And what I've done with people, customers to say, okay, first of all, for every 10 that come in, how many become your regular, right?

Host:

Not all 10 are going to just all of a sudden become regular customers.

Host:

So let's say you say five, you know, and then your five come in so you say, oh, they usually come in once every other week, or they come in once a month or once a week, whatever, and they spend X amount.

Host:

So you can put together kind of a value, you know, and we always keep it conservative, you know, and say, well, let's say three.

Host:

If you think they're five years, let's say three years.

Host:

Right.

Host:

So that's how we would come up with this crazy number.

Host:

So I guess my question is, and a lot of times the point would be, and when I train my people, when they're selling, it's like we need to be the third best, you know?

Host:

And what I mean by that is, if you're word of mouth, which isn't really advertising, but when people are saying it, communicating, they kind of say, you know, you'll say, what's your best advertiser?

Host:

Oh, word of mouth.

Host:

Well, okay.

Host:

It's not really advertising, but okay.

Host:

But word of mouth and customer list need to be the best, too, right?

Host:

They're the best.

Host:

Two now running a buy two get one free or a buy one get one free makes sense because now it turns into a repeat anyway.

Host:

That's kind of the thing we play with a lot.

Host:

And so my question was, do you.

Host:

Do you have any way of tracking.

Host:

Do you notice.

Host:

Is it something you just kind of observe, like, are you seeing new customers or do you think get new and then do you see them?

Host:

You know, you grow in this herd.

Host:

In other words, you feel like you have a.

Host:

Like you're trying to put together a herd of customers, in other words.

Mike:

Yeah, great question.

Mike:

We try to.

Mike:

We try to do that.

Mike:

We see, like, new people coming in and then maybe some people exiting because part of our customer base is kids or kids and their parents.

Mike:

And when the kids go off to, like, college, you know, they're not coming in while they're off at college.

Mike:

They might come in when they're at from break from college, but there tends to be like a break in that age group of like, maybe 24 to then whenever they have kids.

Host:

Right.

Mike:

Like, there's not a whole.

Mike:

There's not a whole lot of people in that age of like 27, 28 years old who are just coming in by themselves to get frozen yogurt.

Mike:

Right?

Mike:

So.

Mike:

Yeah.

Host:

And yet, is that the Starbucks market?

Host:

That sounds like probably.

Mike:

Yeah.

Mike:

Yeah.

Host:

Reagan, how old are you, Reagan?

Reagan:

26.

Host:

There you go.

Host:

What do you.

Host:

What do you go to Starbucks or get yogurt or anything?

Host:

What do you do.

Reagan:

Sometimes?

Reagan:

I don't really have many near me.

Reagan:

I live In Ashland, so.

Mike:

Oh, it's got the Starbucks in Ashland, right?

Reagan:

Yeah, but it's.

Reagan:

It's out by the highway.

Host:

Oh, yeah, it's over by 250.

Host:

There's this Croat in Kroger over here, they have in Madison.

Host:

I know there's people that go in there, but that would be your.

Host:

So, Reagan, do you think you'd be more likely to buy Starbucks than, like, a frozen yogurt?

Host:

Or would you.

Host:

Or would.

Host:

What do you think?

Host:

What is do.

Host:

Would your wife like frozen yogurt or anything?

Reagan:

Yeah, yeah, she likes frozen yogurt a lot.

Reagan:

I would say.

Reagan:

I would probably be more willing to spend money on frozen yogurt just because they have a really hard time spending $6 on a cup of coffee.

Mike:

Yeah.

Host:

Thank you.

Mike:

Well, you're in luck.

Mike:

I think there's an Ella's over in Ashland.

Mike:

That's a frozen yogurt.

Reagan:

Yeah, there's that one.

Reagan:

We've been to it a couple times.

Mike:

Okay, cool.

Host:

Are you.

Mike:

That's close to the campus in downtown, I think.

Host:

Do you like.

Host:

I couldn't.

Host:

Your tone, your voice didn't sound as, you know, reassuring.

Host:

You like Ella's or.

Reagan:

I don't dislike it.

Reagan:

We just.

Host:

That's like a four star rating.

Host:

It's, like, not good.

Mike:

Yeah, I thought three and a half.

Reagan:

Yeah, we just.

Mike:

Not bad.

Reagan:

Yeah, we don't go out.

Host:

I mean, if I have to, I'd eat it.

Reagan:

We don't go out for frozen yogurt that often.

Reagan:

Often.

Reagan:

We don't.

Reagan:

We don't really go out that often.

Host:

First, it started off good.

Host:

We were just.

Host:

We could.

Host:

I should have stopped asking them questions.

Host:

All right.

Host:

Thank you, Reagan.

Host:

Okay.

Host:

So anyway, so do you.

Host:

So you.

Host:

It does sound.

Host:

I'll.

Host:

I'll call it like, migratory, kind of like.

Host:

In other words, your market is.

Host:

It's almost more lifestyle than.

Host:

As they start to shift into these differently and they're going to college or they're doing this or that.

Host:

That's where you see it's not so much like, well, they come and do this for so long and then we lose them or whatever.

Host:

It's more almost like they're transitioning their life.

Host:

So then they're.

Host:

They're more likely to not come as often.

Mike:

Yeah, because I think we're more like a three to four times a year type place as opposed to, you know, Starbucks is like a three to four times a week for some people.

Mike:

Right.

Mike:

So we.

Mike:

We use our point of sale system, which if, you know, if you're in a If you're a smaller business, like we are, you use the.

Mike:

The pos, which point of sale.

Mike:

But I think POS kind of stands for something else.

Mike:

If you're stuck with these small systems, you know, that's like clover and square.

Host:

Yeah.

Mike:

Some of the other ones we use clover.

Mike:

And it's like they.

Mike:

It's.

Mike:

It's the best of.

Mike:

Of the choices, in my opinion.

Mike:

But, you know, kind of like, Reagan, it's not bad.

Mike:

You know, like, it's.

Mike:

It has a tracking system on it for our customers.

Mike:

Like, they can sign up for rewards, which.

Mike:

Anytime you sign up for rewards anywhere, you know, I mean, everybody knows this, right?

Mike:

I mean, it's so they can track what you're doing and how frequently you're coming in.

Host:

Yeah.

Mike:

That's really what that is.

Mike:

Right.

Mike:

It's not like we just want to give you stuff.

Host:

Right.

Host:

So I gotta say, too, it's.

Host:

I just find it annoying.

Host:

Like, I was just at.

Host:

No.

Host:

Yesterday breakfast and.

Host:

Are you in our rewards for.

Host:

Yeah.

Host:

Okay.

Host:

What's your nut?

Host:

It's just this little extra step, man.

Host:

It's just.

Host:

I don't know why.

Host:

It's just annoying as a customer, but I get it.

Host:

I mean, you get, you know, you get, you know, whatever.

Host:

You get rewards.

Host:

Right.

Host:

So every time you buy something, you get a little.

Host:

I don't know, but.

Mike:

And we offer it because it gives us data, you know?

Host:

Yeah.

Host:

Oh, yeah.

Mike:

But that number.

Mike:

The number of people, you know, we're like in the hundreds of thousands.

Mike:

No, we're not in the hundreds of thousands, but we.

Mike:

The number of people that are in our rewards program tends to stay about the same.

Mike:

Like, we have about the same number coming in that we have exiting, you know?

Host:

Okay.

Mike:

And then we have, like, people who are, you know, it'll show you who your VIPs are, who, you know, who's buying a lot of yogurt VIPs that.

Host:

They'Re the really living, like, shiny, happy ones.

Mike:

Yeah.

Mike:

People whose pictures I should have on the wall.

Mike:

You know, they're making my house payment for me.

Host:

Do you find people like, I was this thing.

Host:

It's funny, I remember this one vacation summer we had and Dairy Queen had.

Host:

This was a cotton candy flurry thing or something.

Host:

And it was weird because I don't even know if I'd care about it right now.

Host:

We got addicted to that thing that we were going there.

Host:

Like, it was weird.

Host:

Like, we, like, it was literally like it had something in there, like cocaine or something.

Host:

Because we would be like, oh, you want to get another cotton candy for McFlurry or whatever.

Host:

Or not McFlurry.

Host:

Flurry.

Mike:

Yeah.

Host:

And so do you have people like that where all of a sudden they get really hooked on something and they're coming in and then they're gone?

Host:

Because, you know, after they burn out.

Host:

Because I don't know how long we did that.

Host:

It seemed like it was that one summer or something.

Mike:

Yeah.

Mike:

So we.

Mike:

Yeah.

Mike:

Because we have to change flavors all the time for that reason.

Mike:

Because people will get burned out on what we have.

Mike:

Because, like, that.

Mike:

To your point, if you kept doing that cotton candy Blizzard.

Mike:

Like, if they just kept that one.

Host:

Yeah.

Mike:

Like, Blizzard.

Host:

That's.

Host:

Why am I calling it Flurry?

Mike:

Yeah.

Mike:

You'd eventually be like, oh, man, I've had enough of this.

Mike:

We actually.

Mike:

We actually emulated that one because I had an employee that's like, oh, that's so good.

Host:

Oh, it was.

Mike:

So we got in the cotton candy soft serve, because they do ice cream, too.

Mike:

And then we got the nerds, I think, is the other thing that was in that, you know, so that was a topping choice.

Mike:

Yeah.

Host:

I don't know.

Mike:

Yeah.

Host:

What?

Host:

Oh, so what's a weird.

Host:

Yeah.

Host:

Okay, let's.

Host:

For fun, then.

Host:

What's kind of a cool, weird flavor right now?

Host:

What do you guys.

Host:

There's something different right now.

Mike:

Oh.

Host:

First I saw Burger King as a purple bun or something for the.

Mike:

Oh, yeah.

Mike:

For the Adams family.

Host:

Yeah, look.

Mike:

Yeah.

Host:

I'm almost tempted to eat one.

Host:

So I saw the purple comes from the purple potato.

Mike:

Yeah, that's right.

Mike:

Yeah.

Mike:

I just saw that.

Mike:

I ate at Burger King for the first time in, like, years, just by chance, the other day.

Mike:

Yeah.

Host:

You might want to get some purple yogurt or something, because I'm like, oh.

Mike:

Man, that thing looks like it'd mess up your digestive tract.

Mike:

And then I saw.

Mike:

I saw that was from purple paper potatoes.

Mike:

I'm like, oh, that's pretty cool.

Mike:

Yeah.

Host:

And who knows?

Host:

It's probably like a chemical they took out of there.

Host:

So I don't know.

Host:

Like, it does.

Host:

Yeah.

Host:

But.

Host:

Yeah.

Host:

So you got any cool, weird flavors or anything going on or what?

Host:

I don't know about what's a big flop.

Host:

What was one that just didn't work out?

Mike:

Well, we take these.

Mike:

Well, one we have right now, we have butter pecan, and we have pumpkin pie, which are kind of seasonal, so those are pretty cool.

Mike:

And they're good.

Mike:

They're really good.

Mike:

Cake batters are number one seller.

Mike:

Consistent.

Mike:

We always have really.

Mike:

So flops, though.

Mike:

Okay.

Mike:

So we have customers all the time who tell us, you know, oh, you've got to get this.

Mike:

It's the best flavor.

Mike:

Right?

Mike:

And then we'll get it, and then nobody will buy.

Host:

I love.

Host:

I see it all the time, but you got to do this, and you do it.

Host:

Yeah, we've done stuff here like that.

Host:

Products.

Host:

Like, you gotta do a calendar.

Host:

Gotta do an advertising calendar.

Host:

And we spend months putting this thing together.

Host:

Like nobody wants to do it.

Host:

Like what?

Mike:

Yeah.

Host:

Okay.

Mike:

But even the person.

Mike:

So what's one tells you to do it?

Mike:

Yeah, they don't even.

Mike:

They're like, well, I just thought other people.

Mike:

So tart.

Mike:

Tart is the biggest heart.

Mike:

Yeah, Tart.

Mike:

Which is, like, probably a healthier one, you know, Like, I didn't even know there's a thing.

Host:

There's a flavor called tart.

Mike:

Yeah, like, it's.

Mike:

I'm really sheltered, you know, Somebody.

Mike:

I guess somebody took, like, yogurt base and said, this yogurt base needs to have no sugar.

Mike:

And then let's squeeze lemon juice into it.

Mike:

So it, like, starts to curdle, but we'll freeze it before it curdled.

Mike:

You know, I don't know.

Mike:

That's.

Mike:

It's just very.

Mike:

That's probably not an accurate description, but it's.

Mike:

But I think there is lemon juice in it, or at least citric acid or something like that.

Host:

So.

Host:

I mean, tart flavor kind of.

Host:

But.

Mike:

Yeah, so, yeah, but it's supposed to be good with fruit, which.

Mike:

We have fresh fruit.

Mike:

We have fresh fruit.

Host:

Were you, like.

Host:

Were you, like, texting in, like, hey, did you sell any more of the tart?

Host:

No.

Mike:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mike:

Is that tart flying off the shelf?

Mike:

And they're like, no, Nobody's.

Host:

Anybody.

Host:

Anybody have any more trash back here?

Host:

We're gonna take a bag out.

Host:

Yeah, we've got a gallon of tart here.

Mike:

Inevitably, as soon as we took that tart out, which I think maybe four people ate, you know, somebody's like, you really gotta get.

Host:

Yeah, for sure.

Mike:

But we've had a couple others.

Mike:

Pistachio.

Mike:

That's a frequently requested.

Mike:

Infrequently purchased.

Host:

Yeah, I've never been a tr.

Host:

I mean, I like pistachios, but.

Host:

And I've seen that as a common.

Host:

Remember baskin.

Host:

Baskin.

Host:

Robin.

Mike:

Still around.

Host:

Because they had the 33 flavors.

Mike:

They're in, like, Dunkin Donuts.

Mike:

There's those.

Mike:

They're a combination store.

Mike:

Oh, yeah.

Host:

Because I would see that.

Host:

I'd be like, nah, I'm not gonna get that One what's so.

Host:

Cake batter.

Host:

See, I don't think I've ever tried cake batter.

Host:

Now I got it.

Mike:

Yep.

Host:

I'm gonna definitely try that now.

Mike:

It's free.

Mike:

It's on me.

Mike:

Oh, I meant to bring you guys gift cards today.

Mike:

I grabbed the wrong car.

Host:

Are you kidding me?

Host:

You're a customer.

Host:

We should be giving you gift cards.

Host:

No, we will pay.

Host:

I.

Host:

That's.

Host:

What.

Host:

Tell me this.

Host:

Does Jeff ever come in and use a coupon?

Mike:

I.

Mike:

I give Jeff.

Mike:

If he does what?

Mike:

Yeah, yeah, Jeff.

Host:

I gotta talk to Jeff.

Host:

Yeah, you can't be doing.

Host:

You're a paying customer.

Host:

That's not how that works.

Host:

We should be.

Host:

We should be buying you something.

Host:

That's.

Host:

That's crazy.

Host:

I would never.

Host:

I would purposely.

Host:

Now, I would try to walk in and say, hey, I was using this.

Host:

I'm not going to use a coupon, though, because I don't.

Host:

But I want to get the credit that I'm, you know, with the company buying it.

Host:

But we shouldn't be using our own coupons.

Host:

That's not right.

Mike:

No, I love Jeff.

Mike:

I'm.

Mike:

He's.

Mike:

He's free Froyo for life.

Host:

Wow.

Host:

Okay.

Host:

That's a big plug for Jeff.

Host:

All right, so that's good to hear.

Host:

Yeah, no, he's a good he type.

Host:

Has a big sale.

Host:

He just had.

Mike:

No.

Host:

Oh, I'll tell you off.

Mike:

I'm not in the store as much as I used to be.

Mike:

Like, the first year I was, I worked there every day.

Mike:

Now I have an assistant manager, and she runs it four of the.

Mike:

Four of the five weekdays.

Mike:

And then, I mean, I'm.

Mike:

I stop in, like, at least once a day.

Mike:

I do all the orders and everything now.

Host:

Do you know how close do you guys live to the store?

Mike:

Five minutes.

Mike:

We're over by Marshall Park.

Host:

So now do your kids just.

Host:

Do your kids like it?

Host:

Do they pop in there?

Mike:

Yeah, they.

Mike:

They go in.

Mike:

You know, it's a funny thing.

Mike:

Like, they loved the idea of being able to get, like, free frozen yogurt.

Host:

Yeah.

Host:

It would just seem cool if I was a kid.

Host:

Yeah.

Host:

My dad had a yogurt shop.

Mike:

Yeah.

Mike:

They're.

Host:

They'd bring their buddies in.

Mike:

Oh, yeah, they did that.

Mike:

And they're.

Mike:

They're 17 to 21, all of them, so they're like.

Mike:

They.

Mike:

But they love that idea.

Mike:

Yeah.

Mike:

Yeah.

Mike:

But they, you know, now they'll.

Mike:

You know, I think they're.

Mike:

You can.

Mike:

You can eat too much frozen yogurt, I guess, is what I'm saying.

Mike:

So.

Mike:

Like, my stepson and his girlfriend will go to crumble all the time.

Mike:

And I'm like, you should be going and getting frozen yogurt because it's free.

Mike:

You guys need to stop spending your money all the time, you know?

Host:

And at some point, the decision is financial.

Host:

Right now you want to taste guy like.

Mike:

Yeah, but yeah, they, they do, though.

Mike:

They, they, they go in or if, you know, if they have a friend or whatever, they'll go in and, and they get free.

Mike:

I think they, I think they think it's cool that they get to get it for free.

Host:

Oh, that's what I mean.

Host:

That would be cool.

Mike:

Especially if it's a new employee.

Mike:

I think they think that's cool.

Mike:

Like, yeah, you know, I'm.

Mike:

I get it for free.

Host:

I could totally see that.

Host:

When you're a kid.

Host:

I remember.

Host:

Well, this is inappropriate probably, but a friend of mine worked at Little Caesars and we got drunk one night at like three in the morning or something, and we, we went in there and I ate cheese out of the big barrel.

Mike:

Oh, yeah.

Host:

And then I.

Host:

Oh, I forgot.

Host:

Then he made me a pizza to take home and cook and I fell asleep or passed out.

Host:

I don't know.

Mike:

Yeah.

Host:

And my dad woke up to the, to the stove almost on fire.

Mike:

On fire.

Host:

It was not good ending.

Host:

Yeah.

Mike:

Tell me, though, there was part of you that still contemplated eating that burnt pizza.

Host:

Oh, you're like, oh, yeah.

Mike:

Edibles.

Host:

I would have.

Host:

Yeah, it was during.

Host:

Well, you grew up in that.

Host:

Yeah, that was back in the day when WMMS would play maggot brain.

Host:

At 2 in the morning, we'd be at Burger King.

Host:

That was our, that's our routine.

Mike:

A little bit before my time.

Host:

Yeah.

Mike:

Yeah.

Host:

That's the old school, guys.

Host:

Before we had cell phones.

Mike:

I tell my kids, though, about, you know, we used to go to the clubs and stuff, and they're like.

Mike:

Like, I feel bad for.

Mike:

I really do.

Mike:

I feel bad for kids today because.

Host:

Oh, it's horrible.

Mike:

They.

Host:

Yeah.

Mike:

You know, they don't.

Mike:

I mean, did they do that thing?

Host:

Do you see those?

Host:

They'll wear headphones and they're all listening to different stuff, dancing around.

Host:

That seems so weird.

Host:

I'm like, how is that cool?

Mike:

It's got to be awesome.

Mike:

To the individual while they're listening to the headphones.

Mike:

But it makes for like the worst video.

Mike:

Like the.

Host:

Yeah.

Mike:

You know, to use their words.

Mike:

It's the cringiest thing to watch.

Mike:

Watching a video of just people with no sound dancing around to those.

Mike:

Yeah.

Host:

I Don't.

Host:

Yeah, it's just a.

Host:

And maybe it's.

Host:

I don't know.

Host:

Do you do that, Reagan?

Host:

Do you and your wife got the clubs and.

Host:

We do not.

Reagan:

We do not go clubbing.

Host:

Okay.

Host:

Is there clubs?

Mike:

No, I don't think the kids.

Host:

Do people even go to clubs?

Reagan:

I mean, Lucas used to have a club.

Host:

Lucas?

Reagan:

Yeah, the community center.

Host:

Oh, my gosh.

Host:

That's not a clue.

Host:

Oh, okay.

Host:

Yeah, Yeah, I guess it was kind of a.

Host:

Yeah, it used to be called Liquid.

Host:

It was a bar, so just that we have a community center, and it was Liquid before, so.

Host:

Yeah, I guess.

Mike:

How long ago was that?

Host:

It's been a while, because.

Host:

Let's say 15, 20 years.

Host:

e we've had this since, like,:

Host:

We bought it.

Host:

That's 20.

Host:

Oh, yeah, that's.

Host:

What am I saying?

Host:

I'm.

Host:

The heroes are.

Host:

See how they're getting a little faster for you, too?

Host:

I'm 60.

Host:

I just said that, too.

Host:

That.

Host:

That's 14 years ago.

Host:

I'm thinking it was, like, you know, six years ago their day.

Mike:

Like.

Mike:

Yeah, we used to go.

Mike:

We used to go the Boot Scooting Saloon.

Mike:

You ever heard?

Host:

Oh, I've heard of that.

Mike:

Yeah, that was up in.

Mike:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mike:

We used to love going there.

Host:

That must be big, because I.

Host:

Yeah, I've heard it.

Mike:

It's, of course, gone.

Mike:

You know, it was lying dancing or whatever, which I wasn't at the time.

Mike:

I wasn't even a huge country music fan, but, you know.

Mike:

But it was a blast.

Host:

Yeah, it's a place to go.

Host:

Yeah.

Host:

Oh, well, between the social media.

Host:

Well, that's part of what we did.

Host:

The community center.

Host:

Just a place where kids are physically.

Host:

Like we do after football games, we have a pizza party.

Host:

And so it's for the kids to get, because otherwise they're not getting together.

Host:

You know, don't physically interact.

Host:

So that's got to be fun there.

Host:

So you have the tables.

Host:

That gives the kids a chance to hang out.

Mike:

Right.

Host:

I mean, even that's a little.

Host:

Are they sitting there just on their phones eating yogurt?

Mike:

Yeah, unfortunately.

Mike:

But too bad.

Mike:

I love that Jeff has.

Mike:

What, the.

Mike:

The mothership.

Host:

Oh, yeah.

Mike:

I think that that's something really cool around here, that.

Mike:

That for the kids.

Mike:

The kids, yeah.

Host:

To do that.

Mike:

Yeah.

Mike:

I mean, but my kids, who are, like I said, you know, the fact that I'm still calling them kids when they're 21.

Mike:

17 to 21.

Mike:

I mean, I.

Mike:

I was married when I was 21.

Mike:

Right.

Host:

I think that's all changed, right?

Mike:

Yeah, I mean, it's definitely changed.

Host:

Now I have a.

Host:

My first grandkid, and he's from my youngest kid who was like, he's 21.

Host:

I think it's horrible.

Host:

I can't remember my kids, but.

Host:

But all the other kids.

Host:

No kids.

Host:

And yeah, it does seem like to us, or at least in my age, I think I was married at 24, and we were the last ones to get married.

Host:

Now, that'd be really early, right?

Host:

People are probably getting married around third.

Host:

How old were you got married, Reagan?

Reagan:

Like 24.

Host:

Oh, never mind.

Host:

Same thing.

Mike:

He's a.

Host:

He's old.

Mike:

He's an outlier, probably.

Mike:

He's like.

Host:

Yeah.

Host:

How about your friends, Reagan?

Host:

Allow your friends married?

Reagan:

Yeah, I was like one of the last people.

Host:

Oh, apparently.

Mike:

Okay.

Host:

Apparently.

Host:

We have no idea.

Reagan:

I mean, well, I grew up.

Host:

Don't listen to the show for trends.

Host:

We don't know what's.

Mike:

We're just a couple of curmudgeons saying stuff.

Reagan:

I think it's different, like, depending on who you like.

Reagan:

I think millennials did get married a lot later than Gen Z.

Reagan:

I think Gen Z, which is.

Reagan:

But I'm Gen Z.

Reagan:

We started getting married a lot earlier again, however, also, I think part of it is like, I'm involved in the church and stuff.

Mike:

Oh, yeah.

Host:

There you go.

Reagan:

It's a lot.

Host:

You know, look at the buckets.

Host:

The church people are getting married earlier.

Mike:

Okay.

Host:

I don't know what the other people are.

Host:

Video game people.

Host:

Do you play video games, Reagan?

Reagan:

I do.

Host:

So you can be a church person and a video game person.

Reagan:

People can do multiple things.

Host:

Wow.

Host:

See, it's gotten complicated.

Host:

Back in the day, it was either head or jock.

Host:

That's when I grew up.

Host:

You're a jock or you're ahead now?

Host:

I guess there's all kinds of segments.

Host:

Things.

Host:

Let's just stop there.

Host:

That's going to get weird.

Mike:

Yeah.

Host:

Okay, so any last.

Host:

I'll tell you what, we really appreciate you coming out.

Host:

We've gone over an hour already.

Host:

I thought it was like, I'd love 20 here.

Host:

Well, good.

Host:

We love having you here.

Host:

This is.

Host:

Jeff said you're gonna be really cool, and we were actually hoping you could come to the summit, but I do understand the shoulders thing, so.

Mike:

I mean, that's.

Mike:

The surgery's the day before.

Mike:

I guess I could come.

Mike:

Oh, Percocets.

Host:

Yeah, maybe you should.

Host:

For fun.

Host:

Yeah.

Mike:

Yeah.

Mike:

Maybe next year.

Host:

Yeah.

Host:

Okay, we'll get you the next year.

Host:

But any last thoughts?

Mike:

Like.

Host:

Yeah, like, market.

Host:

Like you know, was there.

Host:

I mean, if you can narrow it down, you know, since we're supposed to be talking about market printing, digital media and stuff like that, which, by the way, there's a.

Host:

I mean, here you are in print, right?

Host:

I mean, and, you know, we've.

Host:

Everyone acts like, oh, Prince dying, newspapers are going out of business.

Host:

You know, we heard this.

Host:

It feels like we're kind of having a little resurgence thing going on this past year, even.

Host:

I'm surprised, honestly, on the company.

Host:

And I'm like, well, what's going on?

Host:

Part of it.

Host:

They said the Gen zers are really getting back more into it and they're looking for more authenticity and trust which print represents.

Host:

And now this I do know.

Host:

So your kids, okay, this thing drives me crazy.

Host:

They sit on their phones, they got their laptop, the tv.

Host:

I mean, you don't know what they're.

Mike:

What.

Host:

There's like three or four screens going in front of them, right?

Reagan:

You're talking about yourself.

Host:

Yeah, myself.

Host:

Yes, I got it.

Host:

I'm trying to.

Host:

I'm.

Host:

He always brings it up, but I'm trying to see.

Host:

I'm a young person at heart.

Host:

I like to play with all my different devices.

Host:

But anyway.

Host:

Well, one of the things they said was, but print holds their attention longer because otherwise they just can't.

Host:

So, so that, I mean, was there any consciousness of that or anything as far as you.

Host:

I mean, utilizing print?

Host:

The fact that you were even open to trying print the first time or just that you.

Host:

You saw.

Host:

I'm just going to try it.

Host:

I don't care, you know, but.

Mike:

Oh, no, I think.

Mike:

I think there's definitely something to that.

Mike:

I think.

Mike:

I think it depends on what kind of print.

Mike:

Like, I think, you know, the beauty of town Money Saver is that it comes in the mail, I think, exclusively.

Mike:

Right.

Mike:

Like, are you guys doing any in newspapers?

Mike:

I mean, I don't know.

Mike:

No, because, you know, the mail until.

Mike:

Until the day that they replace what we get in our mailbox, right.

Mike:

With like, totally just a digital mailbox or something, which I don't think that day is coming, at least not in my lifetime, when somebody physically is touching it and they have to deal with it.

Mike:

Right.

Mike:

And they're like, oh, that's a pretty good deal right there.

Mike:

You know, they see it.

Mike:

I mean, they're.

Mike:

They're interacting with it.

Mike:

You don't have to interact with a billboard.

Mike:

Right?

Host:

Right.

Mike:

You don't have to interact with that ad even on Facebook.

Mike:

You just scroll, test it and don't even.

Host:

A lot of times I'm driving by a billboard, I'm usually texting, and I don't get to see the billboard.

Mike:

That's.

Mike:

That's great advice.

Host:

Yeah, my insurance agent.

Host:

No, I'm kidding.

Mike:

I mean, you.

Mike:

You have to interact with that in some kind of way, right?

Mike:

You have to sort through your mail.

Mike:

They.

Mike:

That you have to see it.

Mike:

I think that that's.

Mike:

That's the best thing about it.

Mike:

And I think there's something tactile about it, about touching it and seeing it.

Mike:

You know, you're engaging two of the senses.

Mike:

You know, I.

Mike:

My stepdaughter's a huge reader.

Mike:

Like, she reads books constantly, and she prefers, you know, paper books.

Host:

She.

Mike:

She's on her phone all the time.

Mike:

She loves being on her MacBook all the time.

Mike:

She's in college.

Mike:

She's the 21 year old, but she has a huge collection of books, and she's.

Mike:

She has a Kindle, but she's doesn't use it nearly as much as she'll.

Mike:

She wants.

Mike:

She collects, like, paper books.

Mike:

Right?

Mike:

Well, that's cool.

Mike:

Yeah, it's like she's.

Host:

How old is she?

Host:

Which one is she?

Mike:

21.

Host:

21.

Host:

Okay.

Mike:

So it's like she's conquered all books, right?

Mike:

But she wants these, the paper books, because there's just.

Mike:

It's a totally different experience when you can touch it and feel it and see it.

Host:

You know, it was funny because we picked up a.

Host:

Because I don't even know if you can get the paper delivered anymore.

Host:

But I was in Kroger the other day.

Host:

I got a news journal or something, and I felt really silly at home.

Host:

I was really enjoying it.

Host:

Like, yeah, me and my wife, we had parts of it out.

Host:

I go, man, I haven't read a paper in, like, 10 years, probably.

Host:

And this is actually kind of fun, like it was.

Mike:

And just hold.

Host:

Yeah.

Host:

I'm like, touch this thing.

Host:

Maybe that's what we sell, touches.

Host:

We touch people.

Mike:

Yeah.

Mike:

Yeah, we sell.

Mike:

Maybe.

Mike:

Maybe don't put that one in there.

Host:

Well, that might fit.

Host:

So, yeah, I always say the wrong things, but what happened was we had a.

Host:

We were trying to do a marketing thing for Community.

Host:

I'm so blessed to have Tom.

Host:

We don't think you've met Tom.

Host:

He does our digital stuff and with Reagan and Tommy and Alyssa, and they all support him and do whatever he said.

Host:

No, I'm kidding.

Host:

I'm just standing for Reagan.

Host:

But anyway.

Host:

But I.

Host:

And my wife didn't appreciate it.

Host:

And I realized when I was on vacation.

Host:

So anyway, I came up with one of the things, right?

Host:

So we're trying to have a marketing slogan with our local community.

Host:

That's a faith based community center thing.

Host:

And mine was free cub hugs.

Host:

That was what I came.

Host:

Because we're Lucas cubs.

Host:

And I thought, oh, cub hug sounds kind of cute.

Host:

Like hug people and maybe promotes hugging or something.

Host:

But apparently it didn't.

Host:

We were at McDonald's or something.

Host:

I had the free cub hug shirt on and my wife's like, this is.

Host:

That's not.

Host:

That's not looking good.

Host:

This looks weird.

Host:

You walk through the store with a free cub hug.

Host:

I'm like, okay, so Mark came up, or Tom came up, belonged to something bigger.

Host:

And I'm like, man, that's.

Host:

You know, people have a gift for that, right?

Host:

Like, I don't.

Host:

Yeah.

Host:

We wouldn't do touching for Tom when you say, we'll see what Tom thinks.

Host:

But anyway, that's what made me think of that.

Host:

Free cub hugs did not go over very well.

Mike:

Well, and.

Mike:

And every once in a while you'll have that one that does.

Mike:

I mean, you can.

Mike:

Not every idea is going to be a great idea.

Host:

It's a tart yogurt.

Mike:

The tart yogurt I did.

Mike:

Talking about how the kids don't have as much to do, you know, this generation right now.

Mike:

I did this.

Mike:

I wanted to have like, you know, kind of an edgy thing with the frozen yogurt.

Mike:

Oh, gosh.

Mike:

We did this Ro After Dark.

Mike:

I can't even talk about it without laughing, but we did a whole different logo and everything.

Mike:

And like, we would dim the lights and had like.

Host:

Oh, that is crappy stuff.

Host:

Yeah.

Host:

Starting to get creepy.

Mike:

We had like glow sticks and stuff at the frozen yogurt shop.

Mike:

And the music would change and stuff and like, total flop.

Mike:

I invested like hundreds of dollars in this thing.

Mike:

The logo is really cool, but it was.

Mike:

It was a total.

Host:

Those are my favorite moments, man.

Host:

This doesn't work.

Host:

I would.

Host:

Okay.

Host:

Do you see Finding Nemo?

Host:

Yeah.

Host:

Oh, yeah.

Mike:

Yeah.

Host:

My favorite line I use all the time is good feelings gone.

Host:

You remember it when he's down there?

Host:

No.

Host:

Okay.

Host:

Well, he's.

Host:

He's down in the.

Host:

Nemo's way down in the dark in a deep sea.

Host:

And it's all dark.

Host:

And there's that little glowy ball, lights up.

Host:

He's like, I don't know why, but I feel so happy.

Host:

Well, it goes to your thing.

Host:

Your glow thing.

Host:

He's like, I just feel so happy.

Host:

I feel.

Host:

And all of a sudden that giant monster, and he's like, good feelings gone.

Host:

And then he takes off.

Mike:

Okay.

Mike:

Yep.

Host:

And I always have, you know, like, you know, the printer might call and say, hey, we lost your mailer.

Host:

Going, whatever.

Host:

I'm like, good feelings gone.

Host:

Like, this is not good.

Host:

So I can't help but think, yeah, you had to.

Host:

So you were there at night, right?

Host:

You, like, you had this whole promotion.

Host:

You check it out a little bit.

Mike:

Later, dim those lights.

Mike:

And I was like this after a.

Host:

Few people were just walking out.

Mike:

No, I mean, it.

Mike:

It just.

Mike:

It didn't increase any business.

Mike:

Like, I could just tell the confused look on the people's faces when we would switch over to.

Mike:

I'm like, nobody.

Host:

People walk around with their, like, flashlights on their cell phone, and.

Mike:

And because the dim lights, the people out in the parking lot would drive by, and they'd be like, are they open?

Mike:

I see the.

Mike:

The open sign is lit up, but they look like they're closed.

Mike:

I'm like, this is.

Mike:

This isn't working.

Host:

This isn't working.

Mike:

You have to just know when to cut it loose, you know, and be.

Host:

Like, usually it takes me a couple extra times that I should have known, you know, whether it's a joke or stuff like that.

Host:

We actually printed those T shirts up, so I had to get rid of them.

Host:

So did you give away a lot.

Mike:

Of glow sticks after that to the employees?

Mike:

Yeah, I.

Mike:

I.

Mike:

My wife's a teacher.

Mike:

I think she took them to school or something like that.

Host:

How.

Host:

What class does she teach?

Mike:

She age.

Mike:

She teaches.

Mike:

Is it.

Host:

Oh, that's our.

Host:

I guess Reagan's done listening to us.

Mike:

Oh, that's an.

Mike:

I thought my phone was ringing or something.

Reagan:

Okay, well, I guess you can keep talking.

Host:

Oh, the deco with the conversation.

Host:

Or was it.

Reagan:

There's, like, a little, like, it.

Reagan:

It flows into.

Reagan:

Oh, like the outside.

Host:

We're flowing out.

Reagan:

Yeah.

Mike:

Oh, I got you.

Mike:

Okay.

Mike:

Is my phone ringing over here?

Host:

Yeah.

Host:

Yeah.

Mike:

What is.

Host:

Do you mind turning your phone off before you come in for a podcast, Mike?

Host:

Okay, well, with that, I guess we've heard all the ups and downs, and I don't even know if we talked about any navigating digital, but I think we did.

Host:

We actually talked a lot about marketing here.

Host:

Usually talk about all.

Host:

Everything else.

Host:

All right, Mike, awesome having you here, man.

Host:

Appreciate you coming out the time.

Host:

Love the product.

Host:

And I gotta get cake batter yogurt.

Host:

All right, over now.

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About the Podcast

Making Cents: Navigating Digital & Print Marketing
with Bill Zirzow
Join host Bill Zirzow each week on "Making Cents," where we dive deep into the world of marketing—both digital and print. Bill engages with a diverse lineup of guests, exploring various marketing strategies, trends, and insights while also sharing personal life stories that inspire and entertain. Each hour-long episode offers valuable takeaways for marketers and entrepreneurs alike, blending expert advice with relatable experiences. Tune in for candid conversations that make sense of the marketing landscape and help you make the most of your marketing dollars!

About your hosts

Bill Zirzow

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Bill Zirzow, owner of Town Money Saver and TMS+, brings his expertise in both print and digital marketing to the Making Cents Podcast as the host. Known for his playful banter and the occasional jab at his guests, Bill has a knack for drawing out personal stories that resonate. He’s passionate about staying on top of the latest marketing trends and loves learning from every guest who joins the show. With a blend of humor and curiosity, Bill makes each episode both engaging and insightful.

Reagan McCullough

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As the producer of Making Cents, Reagan is the one behind the scenes making sure everything runs smoothly—well, mostly! Occasionally, Reagan steps in front of the camera to chime in, whether it's to crack a joke at Bill's expense or throw in some Gen Z perspective. Bill likes to dish it back, too, so you’ll catch some good-natured back-and-forth between them. Together, they keep the show insightful and entertaining, with plenty of laughs along the way.